FRP means a shorter retreat time, meaning squads start reinforcing earlier, plus shorter time back to the field. This will likely more than offset the 75% penalty on most maps, especially if you don't need to reinforce 4 or 5 models at once. Not to mention that the time to heal is sometimes greater than the time to reinforce, and is the limiting factor. I still think FRP will save a lot of time in many situations, hardly pointless - just less effective.
+1 
I also believe it is still quite viable. Just turn the frp off after retreating and then play passively for next 2 mins. The real issue was people w5puld attack, get pinned and then retreat only to turn around and immediately attack elsewhere because they didn't loose many units. This removes the safety net somewhat. |
Stock flamers doubled equipped with bars, easy access to smoke (from mortar and riflemen) and 5 member at vet 3 what, I wonder what could possibly go wrong?
To be viable, all these things would need to be changed. Flamers take both slots like lmgs and 5th man upon vet canceled.
Smoke would also need ro be limited to say lt and morter.
Maybe even tie it to tech upgrade eg nades |
I can't imagine how offended some Axis Lovers would be if the Jackson penetrated their big cats every shot.
A number of other factors like accuracy, reload, range, sight, unit cost etc etc would all be taken into consideration to make this a viable option. |
Not if the building is in concret and you forget to explain where does sit the rest of your opponent army while you use half of yours to force a HMG off while suffering heavy casuality.
First of all, keep in mind I agreed with your point of giving Re's flamers.
As to your reply, try providing more details next time your describing a scenario. If your oppoment has an mg in a house and has his entire army supporting then flamers or any morter from any faction will not clear the building quickly. In fact I wpuld argue that in this scenario smoke would be the best approach as only a moron would sit still when seeing smoke.
Usf imo has plenty of options to clear houses but in situations where it is early in the game or the house is critical then i would have thought the simplest solution is to not lose the house. Take the key house on angoville for example. If ost is careless and loses that house early then there is no easy solution except to push the other side. And yes i do realise ost has the best morter and flamers. |
I open a thread to sum the points about USF.
Moving smoke grenade to RE is interesting to force USF to diversify its BO but since RE are still expensive trash, the change only weaken USF so far.
USF really need something to clean building fast. I played couple of DBP game this afternoon and in one game I purposely let my opponent take the building alongside my cuttof and Built a Mortar, put it at mid range from the building, after 10 minutes firing at the building, 0 kills and still impossible for me to take back my cuttof. I use grenade with no effect, a 4 men squad get out and in faster than the USF grenade windup. At this stage smoke nades are just a waste of amo.
In fact my mortar reached vet2 with 0 kill and then, miraculously killed two guys. The USF mortar is simply too random when you put it in a situation where you actually need it to do something.
RE are still overexpensive trash, the new volley fire save the day some times but it is not like you have that much of amo as USF to spend on so why not giving them flamethrowers?
I understand giving flamthrower and smoke nade to USF can make the early game OP. So why not simply exchange smoke nade and flamethrower. Smoke grenade as doctrinal and flamethrower stock for RE. So you can let them be overexpensive trash mobs but able to upgrade flamethrower everytime you need it.
The USF mortar is so unreliable so at least it will have a real purpose with the smoke barrage. And since all factions will have smoke barrage with this patch, why not all factions could access a real tool to clean buildings as well?
I haven't go to the T3 with USF, so I can't comment on the Major and Jackson changes.
Use the smoke from the morter then surround the house with rifles. Anything thats stays in the house will die or die on retreat due to low health. Although sturmpioneers or mg42 going straight to cutoff house on some maps is broken as shit.
Spamming smoke with rifles though was really obnoxious gameplay. Personally I would prefer the removal of smoke with the exception of morter and Lt and give RE's flamers (remove extra man). The presence of usf morter in every game is really annoying and repetitive. |
About the OST panther, why not simply switch the panther and the tiger?
The tiger could be refit in a generalist role (in fact it is already today), the unit would provide more interest in building your T4. On its side, adjust the Brumbar maybe to be a cheaper IA dedicated unit, reducing its armor or health and global dps, something you use in addition with the Tiger.
Then the OST Panther could be use in doctrines as the OKW command panther is, with some adjustment, making it a really dedicated AT unit, increasing its AT power and reducing its AI one and of course increasing its frontal armor.
The unit could be limited to one at time and only available once BP3 is researched.
So we have an Ostheer faction that has easier access to better generalist units around their dedicated AT units (pak40 and Stug) and if their really need another AT source to fight bigger cats such as Churchills, they can either call an Elefant (in teamgame) or a panther (1vs1)
This would also make other than Tiger doctrines more appealing since you could always build a Tiger.
+1
Many players pick tiger doctrines because that is the only way to deal with late game allied infantry. This is largely due to the real cancer that is indirect fire.
I also seriously doubt any changes to non tiger doctrines will ever make any real appearance due to the fact that Ost often requires a tiger doc. |
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For the record, I do not play okw or team games so this has No effect on me. I fully support some kind of change to FRP to make it a tactical decision and not the brainless set and forget feature it is at the moment.
The 20% increase should only apply to unis in the field. Period.
Such a no brainer.
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Also it makes anything with a short fuse, doubly so the commando instant grenade, to be practically undodgeable.
+1.
As if penal satchel weren't already bs enough, now people will be screaming at their monitors for units to get out of houses. Things like double flame units and re flamers in particular will be extremely op against houses if time correctly.
Fundamentally a bad and unnecessary change that has more to do with mod principles and very little about improving gameplay. This simply adds frustration and cheesy wipes.
There were far, far more important issues that this trivial crap.
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Way better as in the tighter reload (0.3 secs, as opposed to an entire 1 second of variance) will allow you to micro your Panther stop-shooting better.
Way better ? Thats being generous.
The panther has abysmal accuracy and will be forever locked out of 1v1 until that is rectified.
If spamming is a problem then increase the pop cap to 25 for all I care but make it worth the cost. |
The new OST Panther is now way better when it comes out at Vet0, which invalidates all the points you've just presented.
Vet2 bonus was BS anyway, and popcap won't matter if you don't try to spam it.
Are there Ninja buffs because the patch notes only point to a decrease to reload times, and that alone is not enough for me to EVER build it in 1v1. |
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