Profile of nikolai262

"Yes penals are better close but their so bad at far range grens dont ever need to get close and can kill the penals before they get close if they try to advance."

-----> ?
Micro, use the map.

I said 95 % ( for 1 vs 1 and maybe 2 vs 2 only ) for a map like semoiskiy winter, or Rails and metal why not, Kharkhov too, etc.

Why ? Because you have many things, house, cover, trees for get the close range without damage at longe range vs grens, or very small damage ( but grens are completly rape at close range, so it's really not "a problem" ).

Explain to me how I micro my penals toward a gren squad at range and win when the axis player can also just micro them further away or kill 2 models before I get there and win. Axis players have micro to you know, I know it doesn't seem necessary at the moment but it does exist!

Also the maps you have described a majority of the map is still open ground and will require advances on positions.

What do I do when grens have LMG? How do I micro my penals toward a garrisoned house or green cover without taking losses. What if the other player has used MG's/other units to cover the flanks.

As in all engagements range is one of the most effective tools to have. I know its off topic but even in bloody boxing range is one of the key stats!

Essentially this patch makes it more difficult for soviets to aggressively assault positions and harder to defend encamped positions. Not impossible not saying it cant be done but the fact is its more difficult than as axis that's the whole point.

Neo hahahaha

Knife vs grens lOLolloLol

If you have conscripts with knife one Shoot gren at close range, you will win

Maybe 95 % of the map have a good area for penal for get their best range ( close range ) vs grens with their bad range ( close range ).

You need micro lol. SKILL TROLOL.

Please don't make a skill game relic, they want a lottery game and "baby game". Moar conscripts, moar grens.

-I use Kark98.

-Why man ?

-For counter Kark98 héhé, hope i will win ! hihi

Ouin Ouin MVGame

95% of the map has ideal range for Penals i.e close range? how did you figure this one out? on what map are 95% of your engagements at <5m-10m?

Lets look at DPS stats (weapon dps with reload) from the spreadsheet adjusted for number of models.

_________________N__________M__________F
Grens no LMG___23.664_____11.804____8.516

Penals_________32.388_____11.304____4.056

Cons___________17.172_____8.064_____3.948

Grens + LMG____33.058_____18.522____10.953

Just an LMG____15.31______9.669_____4.566

With such large DPS discrepancies the Grens can always be at their ideal range.

I.e. you are controlling the point and the penals have to advance towards you. You will win as you can kill most of them before they get to you or enough such that at close range their DPS is now inferior. This is generally what happens as most engagements are mid range or greater.

Conversely you are assaulting the point and you see penals waiting in cover 'utilising their optimum range' grens look at dps stats, laugh, proceed to stand at long range anyway and kill them anyway utilising their optimal aka superior range, they can also R nade from range to get them out of cover or force advance/retreat.

I don't see how you can argue skill/range utilisation issues when there is such a gross discrepancy. Yes penals are better close but their so bad at far range grens dont ever need to get close and can kill the penals before they get close if they try to advance. Cons as you can see are pathetic and a single LMG has the same dps as their entire squad.

Adding an LMG to the mix means that grens will beat any early game unit hands down + the above point on r nades whereas molotovs you have to get close which as pointed out is suicide.

I would be glad to see riflenades removed if the Maxim would have less than 6 squad members and not change positions so quickly. The riflenade is to compensate for the larger Soviet Squad sizes which the squad can quickly retreat once it's riflenaded.

The same can be said for the mg42 once they get moltoved it's wise to retreat otherwise rng will do it's job. The effectiveness of grenades into Machinegun removal depends on your luck. In a riflenade to maxim situation the effectiveness of the grenade depends on whether or not the other squad members bunch up. Squad members bunching up cannot be controlled the player therefore it requires a bit of luck for the German player to kill most of the mg crew. As for Moltovs and MG42, this relys on rng because sometimes 3 full hp squad members just get wiped instantly or they take little to no damage at all.

The chance of 3 squad members been wiped instantly is near 0. Rnades always wipe models and still hurt the other ones alot so that another nade or small arms will see them off.

The maxim has quick setup since its arc is so small.

Not sure but with the range increase on vet can the Rnade out range the maxim?

As discussed I believe this commander is still OP and compounds many existing issues as well as combining all the german OPness into one handy package:

G43 OP -> even more OP with instant vet.
Rnade squad wiping -> even more easy with increased range from vet and 2 grens can currently insta kill any support weapon.
Smoke, blitz and German tank veterancy already OP -> now you have it even easier and can combine blitz smoke and armor to make tanks really difficult to kill.
Instant vet 3 mortars!!!!!!

Other than this the TA is still OP as hell for what it costs. Yes it reduces your MP and fuel but fuel essentially doesn't count as the TA would have to be on the field for 8-9 mins before it has costed the same amount of fuel as say a normal tiger or IS2 anyway and it will easily bleed more MP than it costs over that time. Also 2v2 3v3 all call in TA is GG.

Solutions:

Hopefully Rnade and G43 will be adjusted anyway as they are silly atm when I play as Germans I simply don't worry about support weapons now with the Rnade.

No vet for non inf units as suggested.

Increase TA cost further limit to one on field at any one time even if two players use this commander.

Soviet players just need to learn how to play this game the way it was meant to be played. Sorry Ooooraaah molotov spam with snipers in clown cars cant win you games forever.

I really feel germans have always won on solid play but soviet won on silly gimmicks (mass molotov with lucky flame crits, ram, clowncars, counter snipe with double snipers, mines that insta wipes vetted pgrens).

Moltov is not that bad I mean its v easy to dodge and without it what would cons do to stand a chance against lmg grens or vet grens, or clear a house? Also lets look at the counterpart personally I find the rifle nade much more effective and lethal and it reliably wipes 3-4 models not just relying on lucky crits, with the new nade changes I expect the rnade is going to be ridiculously op if it also behaves the same way.

Ram well yes of course without ram a P4 stands a fair chance vs 2 T34’s a lot of the time and a full hp t34 can’t even kill a half health P4 a lot of the time also both of which should not be so sure fire given the only slight price difference (which now is even less/other way around?). Don’t even mention panthers or the fact that all German heavy tanks cost less and perform far better than their heavy soviet counter parts in AT (Yes AI is a little worse but not so bad and you can build nebels or ostwind to support, soviets are always getting told to ‘use combined arms aka upgraded guards, mark vehicle, button and 2 tanks just to kill a tiger or panther if it doesn’t have smoke and blitz’). Basically soviets need ram or something in place of it as their AT is so crap already panther spam is a guaranteed win if you last long enough.

Clown cars are a little lame yes but they die so easy, I mean just build one scout car in prep and it’s no problem at all, since it was so cheap if it killed one m3 it was already worth it. Personally I never had a problem with clown cars, no matter now anyway.
The balance was I thought reasonably good I still think Germans had the clear edge in the long run due to their superior units and veterancy and I never worried if I was a little behind when t3 hits as I know if I/we hold on a little more we will have the edge. If you dominate early on as Germans its already GG whereas for soviets it’s a necessity. Now it seems (although I have not played yet) Germans have the advantage early and late game with all their units been superior.

Yes you can use cover but so can Germans and their units have the range advantage which means in cover they do better as they will easily kill units that try to approach or units that remain at distance even if both are in cover so you can’t just say L2P green cover as what if your opponent is also very tactically minded? Germans can use cover too what then? Flank oh wait MG or super pios/pg’s, try from range oh wait the rapid fire pinpoint German mortar or new SC flank, save for tanks oh wait it costs way too much now. Ok, desperate now let’s try the SC cheese with flame oh wait it dies to a pioneer squad!?! When guards will now struggle against a SC and can only ensure a kill for 150muns……

I may change my opinion after actually playing but atm I don’t see how L2P green cover answers any questions.