https://coh2.serealia.ca/
Relatively up to date if I'm not mistaken
I think hoorah really makes a big difference though. Really useful for getting behind an MG, closing on a long range squad, etc.
And in the end, just get shocks. They're just a better version of ppsh penals, whereas cons give more utility and a good discount compared to both
Thanks, I completely forgot about that website. Looking at the curves the Penals would hit harder early while the conscript would deal close enough while having better Vet3 durability. If I am reading the graphs correctly the PPSH upgrade is massive from short to mid range(16). My next question is if this is a single model DPS graph or for the whole squad? If it is single model, it would make sense to have at least one penal run around in a clown car as a chase unit.
On a different note why does OKW have better RA compared to Ost when they have larger squads? They always seem to float MP unless there are team wipes. |
https://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide
This veterancy guide is up to date *I believe*. The penal veterancy seems up to date anyway
Penals don't get an RA bonus until vet 3, except from to the last man. Cons get a bonus at vet 1 and another at vet 3, and they always have hoorah. Throw in the fact that they are cheaper in every way, and that just makes them better at CQC
I believe penals get 6 shock ppshs when they pick up the crate though. So their close range dps is higher than ppsh cons, I just think they have a harder time closing the distance
Thanks. To bad it doesn't give starting stats unless I did not see it.
It seems Penal would be better until Vet 3 due to their vet 1 ability and weapon cooldown at vet2. Not sure if accuracy would make help due to ROF. biggest issue would be bleed. Do people make the graphs on their own for DPS for cl/med/far. That would be cool to see how it would change. |
what would something to this tune feel like?
penals start with a mix of ppsh and SVts (make em cheaper if needed)
-this makes penals more aggressive, but also enables them to coexist better with cons instead of basically replacing them. it synergizes with the clown car and also gives soviet more brazen aggression which fits the units inspiration
allow them to upgrade to either upgrade and replace the PPSHs with more SVTs or PTRS.
this keeps their versatility and still allows soviet to have a "standard" fighting squad
as for the airdrop SVTs.... they shouldnt exist. cons were never meant to outfight the enemy, they are supposed to outlast them.
replace that with airdropped medical- something the soviet will certainly want, especially if it comes early. replace the airborne hut medical with a strafe or intel or something else.
I like the idea might be too much to implement though. most of us are pushing for the penal "upgrade" since we assume it would be easy to implement. I agree about SVT upgrade, it literally lets conscript do everything at a semi elite level with elite level durability. |
Not to mention you do it with the call-in that puts SVTs on your cons. Using that call-in on cons is much more cost effective than using it for ppshs on penals. I also do not see the reason to make ppsh on penals more common, it's not super useful
But that is not a reason for making it option. Let me make the choice. Some people just want to have fun.
That's a strong ability to give another commander so we'd need to be careful about that. And there's not much reason for ppsh on penals, they're available enough already on other units, which are better suited for them
Cons target size (with vet) + hoorah makes them a much better ppsh squad then penals imo
I can't find the VET for penal hopefully you can help answer or point me where to look(What would be Penal squad specs with 4PPSH and vet). Wouldn't a penal in a clown car with vet 2 make a good chase unit. The VET would help its accuracy right? Also doesn't the VET 1 passive help? |
I just think you're downgrading your men with PPSHs overall for reasons already discussed (bleed on approach with expensive models etc.) Either way they're still grossly weaker than Shock Troops which will just make them get used less. We have penal PPSHs already in the Airborne commander iirc and how often do you see those?
It is an airdrop in exactly 1 commander that can also upgrade conscripts. I would like to see the drop in at least 1 more commander
|
Penal have very high rifle damage and would be punished overall by getting PPSHs imho. Will outshoot volks and grens at all ranges. If you desire a squad with close range PPSHs, there's none better than Shock Troops.
But then your penciled in to certain commanders, or people just want something different. Also with the VET1 ability of Penals wouldn't it provide more synergy then conscripts which aren't really designed for it. Why is it such a problem when their is the jaeger upgrade that can be used by all of ost.
EDIT
As an example the new Soviet Reserve army with T1 opening would allow a complete army. The penals would be the backbone with options for CQC, medium range and some AT. The team weapon drop would allow for a weak hmg and true AT along with a commisar which could boost performance of troops and provide healing. The down side would be no prem med or heavy and heavy MP load.
Advance Warfare Tactics/Conscript support tactics could have 2 different openings instead of conscript spam. |
Its probably too late now for any suggestions because the patch is probably ready for release, but here's to future changes.
In the patch, both cons and penals will benefit from conscript repair package. This is a great change which adds versatility without making the ability too strong. It would be nice if conscript assault package got the same treatment where it would give access to ppsh for both cons and penals. Wehrmacht already has jaeger light infantry upgrade which affects grenadiers, panzergrenadiers and stormtroopers which is awesome and I don't see a reason why soviets shouldn't get the same privilege.
I have been bugging for this for 2 weeks now. |
Oh yes. Cons got buffed and now people ask for Penals to get something more. And the vicious cycle for power creep continues...
PPSH on Penals would require aggressive play which would be costly, loss of AT and no easy way to close in outside of using clown car. However it gives the player choice as to conscript spam or Penal opening while leaving the opponent guessing. People keep complaining about mirrored factions but don't want anything different. |
I really personally like the idea of penals benefitting from both con repair and assault upgrade.
Imagine if it allowed penals to be upgraded with a single DP28, or a flamethrower. I think it would be badass. I mean, guards troops upgrade with 2 DP28s, and they come in at 2cp. Considering how penals will bleed more than cons because of their extra reinforce cost, maybe it would balance out.
The flamethrower is probably a bit much. And DP wouldnt fit an assault role either. Just a fanciful idea.
Maybe even just getting the multi grenade throw would be cool. Just to give them something extra. |
But the Conscript PPSh is worse than the Shock Troop PPSh, which they get 6 of with Airborne Guards instead of 4 with Conscript Assault Package. Hopefully it's more like the Jaeger Light Infantry Upgrade where the Panzergrenadier variant is significantly boosted.
Either or, I just want Penals to get the option so that all the commanders with the assault package have multiple possible openings instead of conscript spam. |
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