On some maps pretty much every inf-squad that's not in your base is within range of the 120mm and shift-clicking is extremely micro intensive with little to no reward, because avoiding 120mm squadwipes is just a god damn lottery.
I would also like to remind you that the incendinary-barrage of the MHT costs 60 mun on a already ammo starved faction and that the MHT has a significantly shorter range than the 120mm. Also you can't just recrew the MHT like the 120mm.
I haven't found shift clicking to overly micro intensive at all. In fact I shift click my squads around my base while they are reinforcing so they automatically head where I need them when they are done reinforcing. ~1 lap around the base for ~3 squad members. It also seems to work well for dodging mortar fire while capping which is why I recommended it. If it's too much for you then that is your problem I guess.
You don't have to use the flame barrage, but the MHT can apply pressure to the 120 and keep it moving. The 120 is only really effective if it can remain static for periods of time. With the high mobility of the MHT it can be constantly on the move harassing the 120 and forcing it to move. Or at least I haven't had much luck using the 120 to fire back on a MHT if the MHT got the first couple shots off. Odds are the MHT will land the first hit if it gets to fire the first couple rounds. I'd have to check stats later but I don't think there are huge discrepancies between their accuracy and damage. |
Everyone seems to be forgetting that the Precision Strike is best used against enemy mortar teams as a counter-barrage ability to completely deny German forces of any indirect fire until Tier 4 Panzerwerfers (minus the doctrinal Mortar Halftrack). In fact, it performs this role much better than the actual (and very useless) Counter Barrage ability on veteran German mortar teams.
You're right, I knew I was forgetting one unit.
If a 240mp mortar could consistently beat the 120mm (360mp) using counter barrage there would be no point in building the 120. As of right now if I am using precision strike to have the chance to kill 0-4 members of the Ostheer mortar squad I am trading about a minute or more of munitions for slightly less than a minute of manpower - not necessarily a good or bad trade.
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I've thought about the problem some more and I'm going to retract my thought that reinforcing cost is a problem.
Penal squads are an approximate equivalent for an lmg upgraded gren squad (both in unit stats and the time-cost of resources required to make them). However if you have these two units fight each other (assuming neither squad is completely wiped), over the course of many engagements the lmg gren squad is a cost effective solution to penal squads because of the difference in reinforcement cost.
However penal squads can also take on pgren squads either from range or with the flame upgrade for close quarters. If the penal squad had a lower reinforcement cost it becomes a cost effective solution for fighting pgrens over time - I don't think that is right either.
Perhaps penal troops should be faced with a decision to upgrade to either a flamethrower or the guards' antitank rifles? This would leave them the choice of being either effective against light vehicles or effective against infantry. It would remove the "necessity" of guards for T1-T4 play. Thoughts?
I know penals weren't the thread topic per se but since we are talking about them a lot I felt it could be stated here.
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Should be the same for everyone, according to
http://coh2-stats.herokuapp.com/squads/grenadier_squad_mp
(the capture and revert rate multipliers are in the raw data part)
I only checked 3 or 4 squads, but from the ones I checked, only Osttruppen had a deviating multiplier.
Huh, that is good to know. I swore it felt like an eternity for shock troops or pgrens to cap points, guess it was just in my head. |
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It's perfectly fine to use them. The soviet player was likely just outplayed. A standard 3x conscript + molotov opening into T1 or T2 shouldn't have an obscene amount of trouble with them. While they are a pain until you get your tier structure up, the soviets either have to avoid, locally outnumber, or use buildings to stay even.
T1 -> once the scout car is up feel free to go hunting - assault grens can't faust you.
T2 -> use maxim to suppress them.
The soviets have the necessary tools to deal with assault grens. If they are whining it's their problem. The only time I ever had a problem against them was the first day they came out unbalanced. |
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Just had 48 kills with a 120 in a 27 minute 2v2 XD
It is pretty strong most of the time. As far as not wanting capping units dead, just shift click them in a circle if they are in range of a 120.
I don't find that it consistently wipes squads. However I do find that it is very good at finishing wounded squads. If you spend 45 munitions - 1+ minute of munitions - you probably should have a good chance of killing a couple soldiers. Maybe some form of audio alert like the whistle needs to be added so you know that you should retreat/move things like wounded mg42's or paks that are the primary target for these single shots.
Edit: Not to mention Ostheer do have a mobile doctrinal mortar unit that can rain flames on capping units and constantly force the 120mm around. |
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Thought it might be worthwhile to just post the general strategy I was using.
"I'll do a quick bullet point rundown of essentially what I do.
*Conscipts cap points and build sandbags (free green cover!)
*Sandbags are either built while capping the point (saves time) or built behind important points to gain line of sight
*Engineers when they have a chance build mines at choke points in front of sandbags to create a kill zone or built on the flanks to keep the sandbags from being flanked
*Get the doctine that has guards rifle, 120mm mortar, mark vehicle and the two T34 85's.
*120mm mortar is built to keep mg42's from creeping in and to keep enemy mortars from shelling you out of position
*Guards rifle built to help control early scout cars and P4's
*su85 built to counter armor, keep it sagging between defensive positions and bring it to the front only when enemy armor shows up
That is essentially it. Focus on just holding 2 VP points and 1 set of the major resource points. Don't worry too much about pushing forward and snagging extra ground unless you just repelled a major attack. One extra control point (I've been finding out) is not worth the manpower loss you might sustain for having out of position units.
Let me know what you think and good luck trying it out. I have not faced an elephant using this strategy yet but I'll jump that hurdle when I get to it."
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My defensive strat (sandbags and mines) I wrote about in one of the last replays I posted finally lost today after netting me 7 straight wins with random teammates. Good news is that it held up quite well against (they said they were ~100) very high level Germans. Ultimately I still lost this game though. My strat did get beat up a bit by an elephant like I feared it finally would, but it still held well - just had to sag my su85's back a bit further than normal.
Feel free to comment, hope you enjoy it. |
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Your initial premise is flawed. Ostheer do not have to build immediately. Building pioneers can work just fine with an eventual move to T2 bypassing T1 (also assault grens and ostuppen).
Grens at T1 are fine. Penals need some work I believe, primarily reinforcement cost if Relic doesn't want to mess with the stats.
Edit: Maybe I misread or you updated while I was typing but you now have pioneers listed. My bad.
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Teammate and opponents were random and despite having a teammate I didn't really coordinate with him - this is certainly a very average game. I'm posting this because the strategy is more defensive and has been working very well for me and because my mines were comically effective this game.
I'll do a quick bullet point rundown of essentially what I do.
*Conscipts cap points and build sandbags (free green cover!)
*Sandbags are either built while capping the point (saves time) or built behind important points to gain line of sight
*Engineers when they have a chance build mines at choke points in front of sandbags to create a kill zone or built on the flanks to keep the sandbags from being flanked
*Get the doctine that has guards rifle, 120mm mortar, mark vehicle and the two T34 85's.
*120mm mortar is built to keep mg42's from creeping in and to keep enemy mortars from shelling you out of position
*Guards rifle built to help control early scout cars and P4's
*su85 built to counter armor, keep it sagging between defensive positions and bring it to the front only when enemy armor shows up
That is essentially it. Focus on just holding 2 VP points and 1 set of the major resource points. Don't worry too much about pushing forward and snagging extra ground unless you just repelled a major attack. One extra control point (I've been finding out) is not worth the manpower loss you might sustain for having out of position units.
Let me know what you think and good luck trying it out. I have not faced an elephant using this strategy yet but I'll jump that hurdle when I get to it.
PS: I'm not claiming to be the first person to try this but I haven't seen it posted in awhile.
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