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Ostwind is more expensive than a T-34 (80mp, 20 fuel difference, IIRC?, which also means in an even fuel game there's going to be a window where the Russian player can have 2 T-34s to just the one Ostwind). It loses to one T-34 in an even fight (a vet 2 Ostwind can maul a T-34, though) most of the time (in a long distance frontal engagement the Ostwind will usually be able to retreat to somewhere it can get support).
Not really sure it trumps T-3 at the moment.
I don't think it would be a viable first choice if a T-34 which also has AI capability and is cheaper hard countered it and a T-70 had a fighting chance (and I like having all of the Ostheer T3 as a possible first choice). I've yet to see aircraft as a huge deal as Germans, tbh.
Yeah, maybe the T-34 needs some kind of buff (probably penetration or weapon damage) but I think buffing the armour to the point where an Ostwind doesn't penetrate is overkill, and making it a P-IV pretty much kills the asymmetrical balance which is the best thing about CoH really. |
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Tactical Movement's pretty good imo. Extremely fast infantry across the field, you use it for a big push and flank rather than single-squad-boosting, for ganking a light vehicle, for ganging up on a squad or two unexpectedly, or when you can net a squad/vehicle kill or something of similar value with it (in cost it's not more than a single bundlenade, so I sort of think it's OK). Ambush tactics I have yet to see used to much effect but I'm sure it could work alright.
The main problem with the doctrine at the moment is that Shreks are both really expensive and not really a great counter to anything on account of the amount of time they spend rolling around from tank fire or edging forwards instead of firing. They're not terrible and work great in buildings but in the field they don't seem to perform atm. |
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My point is that it IS viable as a first buy at the moment because it has that soft AT function and can counter T-70s and situationally a T-34. It would not (imo) be viable if it had no penetration on a T-34 like some folks are suggesting. |
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That's my point - if it lost the soft AT capability it has at the moment I don't really think it'd be viable. Currently, I'm a fan, it's a risk against heavier armour if you don't micro it well, minces infantry and becomes *ridiculously* good with vet. |
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Ostwind first is a too big a fuel investment for something without soft AT capability. |
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Shreks in buildings work. Teller mine works. I basically see a T-70 as authorisation to get an Ostwind since the Soviet's spending their first fuel on a non-AT unit. That said, needs a small drop in its killing power, especially on retreating squads. |
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^ yep
The biggest problem looked like the early squad deaths from the M3 flamecar on retreat. Some of them were avoidable/silly attempt to get off faust deaths, others couldn't be helped at all.
There were at least two games in there where the German player could've won (Aimstrong in G3, where he didn't select a doctrine and kept feeding the SU-85 with PIVs and Sepha in G5, where he just threw away a Flammenwerfer at a key moment instead of killing a retreating guard squad), and one more where the German player just threw it (G1, where Aimstrong just built gren after gren after gren to deal with Sepha's horde of Scout Car Flamers and kept wasting fausts and getting grens picked off one by one).
Aimstrong's Guard Motor strategy is just phenomenally good - I'm not sure we've really seen a German strat at the same level yet. |
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Tbh, I'd keep the armour and see if it was a huge problem - he's only one model so if he gets caught at close range by a squad it'd still probably be curtains. The main reason for the health buff is just so he has the same survivability against near misses from arty or tanks as a normal squad-member. |
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@Shazz - probably should be a bit cheaper, I agree. I really like the explosive round tbh, though I think the Soviet sprint is more practical. Think increasing his health to 80 would up his survivability a lot in practical terms (or would at least be a start).
@Heeroduo - the point being, against anything that ignores armour (i.e. any indirect fire, flames from a molotov/flamer, splash from a missed tank shot) or anything the German sniper goes down instantly. These tend to be the same things that ignore retreat bonuses, which compounds the problem. The Soviet sniper team, thanks to two models, rarely has both hit by the same effect and is also facing less indirect fire normally, making them a lot more capable of lasting into the mid/endgame and vetting up. Which I think is part of why I see a fair number of Soviet snipers but almost no German ones. |
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Currently I think the biggest issue facing the German sniper is not necessarily the 2-man Soviet team, bigger Soviet weapon crews, occasional awkwardness of cover and cloaking etc. etc. but rather that he hasn't really got any survivability. Hence we're really not seeing much of him (aside from catching a little of Symbi using one like a champ against Barton in the TFN quarters).
The reason for this far as I can see is that he has only 40 HP. Which is half that of a single pioneer or conscript or whatever other infantry. Soviet Snipers also have 40 HP but they do have two models. He also has pretty good armour (2) so while he's not great against small arms fire he can generally survive a little, which is good but in contrast, against anything armour piercing he is *half* as survivable as a pioneer. The real weakness he has in my experience is the indirect fire - mortars, ZiS barrage, SU-76, any even close-ish tank shell will invariably vaporise him, even on retreat. A puff of a flamer will usually kill him straight out. Hell, even a normal ZiS shot can often just kill him straight out.
While most direct fire things are avoidable with experience, you're usually going to get a bit of splash from indirect fire or the occasional hit from vehicles on retreat even if you're very careful. Soviet Sniper teams tend to face less indirect fire (no SU-76 or ZiS) but also can generally cope with it a lot better since they tend to lose one model then retreat.
My suggestion would be to see if the German sniper having 80hp like a regular infantry model might make him a bit less of a liability. He could still be 1-hit killed by a direct tank shot or direct mortar hit but would be less likely to just be splashed to death by a barrage nearby, and would be more likely to make any retreats started in good time.
I'm not 100% sure if that would fix the sniper disparity at the moment (I think the German sniper could probably do with a cost reduction of about 60 tbh) but I think it might get people to sort of see what you can do with a German sniper in a way that people just aren't atm.
Anyways, thoughts? |
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