I agree. You need to focus on one side and stay in the buildings, because if you get pushed off even once, it's gg when they can just lock your bridge completely down with a single MG.
More true on Langreskaya, imo.
Recovering from getting pushed off on this map is OK if you've kept stuff alive and have either indirect fire or snipers (or sometimes even just an M3) around, and you manage to get back on the map before the Ostheer build up too much fuel. T-70s work really well on this map as well. |
The LMG upgrade is really off-the-hook. With it, gren squads become beastly anti-infantry, and can beat or trade favourably with supposed counters (penals, and even shocks), and of course they simply slaughter conscripts. It's strange that the basic german infantry has such a powerful upgrade, and really should be brought more in-line with the level of the LMG in vCOH.
Yeah, I think that is increasingly obviously a problem in the balance.
I mean, I really like it as an interesting upgrade and a scaling thing but the sheer increase in DPS is pretty off the wall. |
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It sort of seemed to be in the same position as the German anti-infantry minefield. Which is to say, interesting but very situational and not a replacement for proper wire. |
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My main recommendations are use the buildings to help make it hard for the Ostheer to get a basepin going, the green cover is a huge deal for early game engagements in the middle and put mines everywhere if you have spare munis. I think any build is kind of doable if you keep up your fuel control. |
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While various things conspire to make penals unattractive, I actually think making them much cheaper is a pretty bad idea, and they scale really well with vet, and the flamers are a big addition to effectiveness against p-grens, and an early penal in M3 has the best chance of an MG steal of anything in the game. I've played a few games bigger than 1v1 recently, and they work OK as an opening in that (especially since Ostheer in >1v1 games are even more MG focussed).
Satchels are kind of high-risk but they are also both incredible and hilarious, so I'm alright with the cost on them. The MG-42 base-pin in Langres can often actually let you satchel it over the hedge effectively.
I'd like to see a small armour buff for them (say, to 1.2, so merge is still a good call but there's a slight bonus for reinforcing at greater cost as with guards, arguably a reduction in build time, but I think that's a universal system related to cost so may not be changeable within current paradigms) but I think they're fundamentally priced about right for the unit's capabilities. I'd like to keep the flamethrower upgrade as a possibility but wouldn't be averse to having a PTRS upgrade as an alternative. |
my complaints are actually kinda like this.
be russian.
have optional upgrade. hey its optional it means i can choose not to take it. because obiously i can choose to deal with some problems without it. because there is an option its because you can choose!
wrong. its a mandatory choice. do toilet makers ask you if you want to upgrade your toilet with a flush option? no!
hey Russian there is you conscript toilet you are gonna get shat on, are you having problems with the shit? well you can choose to upgrade to the flush option, because you can either choose flush the shit, or get CLOGGED!.
my point. if its a mandatory upgrade why don't just give them to them and remove 25 fuel from the starting resources.
Would actually restrict your options a lot, particularly wrt timing the upgrades and starting with either of the tech buildings. Right now you can skip molotovs, depending on map, especially if you're getting a flamethrower or a mortar. You normally want AT nades sometime in the game, but the difference between getting them early and getting them late to how you can play is quite big. |
maybe this is not clear for you: when you see the kv8 and you haven't the right stuff to face it you have to insta-retreat.
what I see all the time is people going "let's see what happens and then maybe when it's down to one man I'll retreat my squad": wrong.
Germans players aren't used to do something like this because their units are too flexible ("mmm....lemme check my grenadiers abilities, have they got one to instagib heavy tanks...nope...maybe I can upgrade them..."), while soviets have to do that A LOT (forgot to add the strafe run to the stuff forcing insta-retreat).
Again, the reason you find the KV8 so annoying is that soviets don't really have anything that kills infantry so it might seem a little strange to see your masses of grens die.
Personally I find it stranger that to deal with infantry properly soviets have to rely on a doctrinal/high cp unit and I find strange that german infantry can still swarm and dominate the field against both Infantry and Tanks with LMGS and shrecks even in late game
T-70s have probably the best anti-infantry in the game for cost. T-34s have very good anti-infantry. Soviet snipers have great anti-infantry. Clown cars have good anti-infantry. Katyushas have pretty good anti-infantry.
The KV-8's cost for what it does is far too low. Compared to its approximate counterpart the Brummbar especially. |
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Pretty self-explanatory topic, really. I'm finding playing on this map from this start very problematic, especially in the winter version. It seems like snipers are the only really plausible opening, since if you don't get them, an MG will get onto your cut-off and then sit on it but from there, even if you keep killing squads, get the Halftrack and Scout Car that'll usually come up, you just won't have any opportunity to get the field presence for fuel or to harass the very well-defended German cutoff. At which point, always Ostwind, which more or less ends any field presence you might have. Throw in a strafing run if the German is a dick going for easymode.
Also, an MG in the house between the fuel and munitions prevents all left hand side harassment on its own.
I've had a German player lose a ton of squads, his first Ostwind and his first P-IV to guards and still win just because there wasn't any way to get field presence back while that was happening.
I've had a couple of wins through snipers -> SU-85 on this map but only against Ostheer players who don't really know what they're doing.
So, is anyone having success with a different approach (or the same approach) against half-decent Ostheer players on this map. I'm thinking a LHS start might just be a generally better idea, since the cut-off is harder to put in place. I sort of think M3+Flamer might be advisable as well but I'm not sure if it'd just get hard countered as soon as it gets out. |
It's outdpsed by a single SU85 against any vehicle (but especially high armor ones because it has less penetration than an SU85). An SU85 is in turn outdpsed by an elefant.
The ISU-152 is very much an anti-infantry unit, just like the IS-2 (and the KV-8). I'm pretty sure everyone playing as soviets wish it wasn't so we'd have some alternative to SU85s.
I think the ISU's range is even better than the SU-85's, and the pen and damage to it is very effective against medium armour. Even heavier armour other than the elephant can't really compete with a supported ISU. |
This might be a stupid suggestion, but.
Is there anyway you can increase the rate of fire of a Osteer sniper when its closer to a target? This would potentially give it the ability to camouflage up toward a soviet sniper and then pop them both if one retreats after the first dies. As of current Osteer sniper takes a shot then has to back out whilst the Soviet reinforces.
I think someone did a test on it, apparently the current Ostheer sniper and Soviet sniper have almost identical ROF at long range, while the Ostheer one has about 1.5x the ROF at closer range. |
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