Nullist, you value squad size far too much when you consider that a recrew is right around the corner if you lose your crew. A flanked ATG is dead, period. I'd rather take my PaK than can fire more quickly with the support of more effective handheld AT(shrecks) and far more effective armor.
The barrage is next to useless unless your opponent is holding his dong. |
^From the point of view of fun, no, not even close. vCoH can be fun, enraging, or draining. CoH2 is just tedious. Herp, retreat your Cons, or watch them duke it out for 45 seconds against a Grenadier squad in cover. Lose map control because Grens are so effing hard to eliminate before their MG42 support arrives to ruin your day, oop, here comes the FHT/blob of poorly microed Pgrens that faceroll everything in their path anyway.
The TERRIBLE infantry combat mechanics kill this game for me, since I'm an infantry oriented player. It sickens me to watch Shock Troops or Pgrens just rush at whatever unit they're trying to kill while deflecting bullets and mashing the target's face into the dirt. Even Rangers actually took damage. Volks could still force off charging Riflemen with BARs provided you focus fired before they closed the distance.
Right now it's the exact. Same. Build. Orders to counter the exact. Same. Lame. Gimmick. Strat. That everyone and their effing dog brings to team games. I don't play in tournaments, so I can't speak for the pure competitive side of CoH2--however, as an RGD coder on several vCoH modding teams, I hate Relic's implementation of practically everything and fail to find anything to enjoy out of many of the tech and unit choices. Even vehicle balance ticks me off.
Are we comparing CoH2 to vCoH? Yes, you're damn right--vCoH got it right. CoH2 took all of that, turned it on its head, swapped Fronts, and said "here, buy some DLC to alleviate your poorly-balanced faction woes!".
Elements such as cover/area denial are gone (I need to buy a DLC to deploy tank traps? WAT?), there are limited/no field defenses, or they're limited to one per unit for a faction. Hell, the Soviets don't even get an MG nest (there's one coming--as a DLC), so they need to hold territory with population cap (a unit), or just cede it to the opponent. The doctrine choices are all blank jigsaw puzzle copies of one another with almost nothing creative between them, or, if it IS creative, it's a horrible, broken gimmick that either plays as an 'I win' button or fails to achieve anything. Vehicle combat has been dumbed down so much I practically drool. There's no point to kiting anymore, you don't lose penetration at range. Roll right up to the enemy tank and drive up his asshole like a tailgater during rush hour. Go ahead, facehug, you lose NOTHING from playing smart. The territory and resource gathering system doesn't allow for comebacks, as once your territory either rises above/falls below the 50% marker, it becomes a snowball effect. This is in addition to the horrible, stomach churning campaign that makes me gag compared to vCoHs. Unimaginative and yet another "Sovjet Ruszia iz out to conquer all of Vorld for Com-rede Schtalin, while meke Sovjet people ohpreszd in Sovjet Goolahg" title, except now we get that from the effing protagonist-- a SOVIET. And they don't even get half of their history right!
Some of the only things I can find to like about the game is the marginally improved UI (in image quality, the layout is far too colorful and arcady for my taste-vCoH's was just right; if it ain't broke, don't break it dammit), the True Sight system, and to some extent, the way in which command trees are unlocked (no more derp moments of failing to choose your Rangers from the CP tree).
You can insist I take a hike, great, that's your opinion. Heck, I might as well in all truth. But this game is tedious and boring with little room for creativity or outfoxing your opponent. How does anyone draw fun from crapping out a Trio of Grens, an MG42, building a blob of PGrens and sitting on their thumbs until they can crap out some Panthers? |
MrJafooli: Plenty of people have been going T3 with Sov very successfully.
Infact probably many more than go T4. I dont agree with your conclusions at all.
And I dont appreciate the not so hidden "Ost players dont wnt to adapt" crap.
The same can be said in ewual measure of Sov players. So what?
Its not really any kind of argument on balance, its just hidden ad hominem.
Go home Smokaz, you're drunk. Hicks would smack you upside the head for saying that |
I find the patch to be a step in the right direction, but...underwhelming. I never chose the Con PPSh-based doctrines anyhow has Cons almost always serve as zerg AT-naders and a significant manpower drain to me--I'd rather use them to reinforce my Guards (lack of armor be damned, Guards die like flies anyway-might as well get them for 10 mp/man cheaper and save myself the headache).
The DPS change is great in the light of not having singleplayer weapons in MP, but slashing the price in half (without telling us) and leaving us with an upgrade that turns Cons from acceptable from-cover mid range workers to MEH when on the move and MEH when stationary, no matter the range...why? They're already next to useless, now I want to sacrifice my long ranged DPS for this crap? The extra burst length is almost useless when Cons are sometimes unlikely to make it to the target and deal so little damage in the first place (taking into account cover modifiers, accuracy, and damage of the gun) that you'd probably barely notice it. The ONLY time that extra burst was worth it was in vCoH MP44s, but MP44s were rapesauce to begin with and came on ubermensch terminator platforms (see: KCH/Stormtroopers/Assault Grenadiers).
Now, if we got Soviet Airborne troops with three PPShs, a DP, and a Mosin, I'd be just fine with that. Mmmmmmm, Soviet Storm: WWII in the East--best series I've seen in a while. |
Good idea adding more non-doctrinal units. I think they should be like the ones in Tales of Valor, you just choose before battle what you bring/don't bring.
It won't net them a profit -> will likely never appear/will be part of an overpriced, overpowered DLC commander. |
This is, honestly, a ridiculous commander. A friend and I were able to roflstomp two RU players using Soviet Industry with himself using Luftwaffles and myself using the (frankly useless) Mechanized Doctrine (iirc, from ToW; the LMG Grens in a clowncar doc). I was able to pump out Grens and give them all LMGs, spam mines, flamers, and throw MGs and optics onto my 4 StuGs, with munitions to spare for Incendiary Shells to spam. It also boosted teching by a silly rate; hell, my friend had 3 Panthers out by the time I had StuGs (short on manpower thanks to me being the primary meat shield while he focused on teching as fast as possible).
It returns too much for too little. Basically, "here, win the resource war that was already borked all to hell with CoH2's crap resource mechanics by simply clicking a button and clicking on a resource point of your choice". Presto, instant, easy teching. Then you get air-droppable medkits that also buff your infantry? Wat??! This is even sillier in tandem with the Elite Troops doc, you can use the fuel to offset vetting everything from your Panthers to the poor Volksgrenadier on latrine duty and still tech to whatever the hell you want. |
Whelp. I'll give null's previous argument post to him. I'd just say scrap the utterly junk CoH2 infantry combat system and revert weapon stats to CoH1--then you can work from there, because, as you suggested null, the MG42 was the suppression tool and the M1917A1 .30 cal was the ender of worlds if it caught a squad all alone within its arc of fire. |
Molotovs are more questionable than your run of the mill vCoH pineapple nuke that Roflmen could lob around without caring. The reason that they're so so effective is because of the silly (terrible) small arms mechanics of the game ALLOWING cons to suicide charge an enemy unit in cover and make it without losing a single man.
The Riflenade is (imho) supposed to be used in conjunction with an MG42--you pin your target down and use the riflenade as a sort of early game mortar--a suppressed target ain't moving out of the way unless the player retreats, in which case you've won that firefight and can likely capture the surrounding area.
I'd honestly like infantry with flat grenades (and a decent effing throwing arm, seriously) rather than molotovs. However, Mols are really the only great boon for non-PPSh'd cons (excluding the magic sock grenade). |
Sigh. I could smash you in an actual game and you'd find a way to justify my making a mistake somewhere. My point in that massive post is, again, theory crafting and vacuum fighting. Yay, you produced theoretical counters and mistakes on my part. Also, pardon me if I'm playing the Soviets wrong, I'll remember that the next time I'm carrying a pub match by doing exactly that.
The vCoH crowd had no issue dealing with MT, which was used by the Schwimmwagen (easily spammable) when the Luftwaffe Tactics tree was chosen. You see the red glow, you GTFO or suffer getting rolled. It's a DPS booster, but it's also a sort of area denial--forces you to get out of wherever you are or suffer getting beaned in the face with a small tactical nuke--gee, I apologize for not jihading my T-34s at the first sight of an enemy vehicle (with or without MT). |
Oh my god. My serious, serious god. Man, I'll have to go search the vCoH replays @ gamereplays and find one where someone started QQing that the Luftwaffle Doctrine's Schwimm mark target was gloriously OP.
My god, I need to hunt you down with some unit, no matter what it is, to DEAL the damage. You're attacking my ATG, which you could usually lololololol and drive past, kill the crew, and continue on. I pop MT, you get boned. Next time, flank the ATG.
I pop MT and attack your P4 with my T-34/76 or pair of them (I personally don't bother ramming unless it's a Tiger or some other nonsense), thus either killing your (superior) P4 or forcing you away from that location. A PaK or Shrecks to guard your vehicle would solve that problem then and there. And if a ZiS is the thing to get the kill, god bless the gun crew and the player--that thing is questionable in worth for 390 (or 360, same diff) MP. More cost than your run of the mill tank for the ability to get rifle-naded, Pgren charged, mortared, derped by any tank or vehicle smart enough to flank it...
I run up my Guards and button your tank and then pop MT, proceeding to let your vehicle take it up the butt sans lube. Where was your support to force off my infantry/unit in general?
In a vacuum, yes, MT is hilariously 'OP'. But in the context of your average team game, no, it's "I want to wipe this vehicle and pray to god my units can hold off the rest of the Ost armor horde". SU-85s are already WTFeffective without MT, using them as an excuse for nerfing it is just bad balance ethics. Yes, it makes my T-34s able to roflstomp your tanks--where, again, is your support for your tanks? Don't your tanks penetrate mine like an L/48 7.5cm gun through cum-soaked tissue paper? A pair of StuGs can still easily do well even on their own, against a pair of T-34/76s with MT, especially if used in the context of a game where they pop a stun shell or just focus fire into the first T-34 that appears. At worst, you come off equal in losses. If you get rammed, back up the other StuG and lel as you kill the non-damaged T-34, and then the damaged one. If you get dual-rammed, ask yourself where your support was if you can't get them repaired and back into the fight.
Context guys. We need context on these forums, there's too much vacuum fighting. See: the 'MG42 overnerfed' esque threads. Why yes, an unsupported MG42 will get rushed by a squad of Cons that strays into its arc of fire and kills the MG before it can suppress them. When, and WHY, would you ever have an MG42 sitting on its thumbs off in the corner of the map, waiting for the nearest god-knows-what to come its way? |