Pgrens with g43's are an almost useless upgrade. Use sight blockers and smoke to get as close as you can while minimizing the damage, Shocks Troops should normally rip them apart like piranhas if they get too close, use grenades and avoid their grenades.
Always go for penals they are generally better than cons in almost everything and with vet 3 you don't even need a shock troop. TBH
I mean admitedly i had 1 shock vs 3 Pgrens. But i was vet 2 and they were unvetted.
I enjoy penals, but you lose the utility of the conscripts.
AT nades, Molotovs, better flanking potential due to OORAH ect.
If i was going penal heavy, would 3 penals + 1 con be good?
Currently i am going 3 cons, 1 penal, 1 scout car |
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I was in a 2v2 recently. The team i was against were both Whermacht, both used the Elite Troops Doctrine commander, both used pure Panzergren bulletins, Both had Jager Light Infantry upgrades on said PanzerGrens.
I could not counter this for the life of me.
I built mines to counter blobs, and in reality they did nothing, their engineers would normally hit them.
My mortar was constantly harrassed by Storm Troopers inside buildings.
The katyusha could never get a decent enough hit.
I then decided to get Shock Troops. Nothing happen, my shock troops got absolutely spit roasted by these Panzer Grens. Am i genuinely suprised, How can Panzergrens with Medium/long range rifles beat my armoured shocks in CQB?
I did admitedly go Conscript heavy, not penals.
Can i get some advice on how i can do better? I just felt like my counters didn't work.
I spammed mines, but i feel like mines require a lot of luck, somehting i didn't have.
Thanks for the help! |
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I really tried doing well as the USF. I thought my engagements were pretty good, nearly enough always using cover.
The 2 engineers along side the kubel were just too much.
My team was denied fuel so long that i decided to go Captain (I already had an LT out) and just get AT guns so i can atleast do something against the Puma and Panzer 4.
It turns out that my infantry got fucked, and my AT guns got fucked.
The mortar carraige i got with my commander did literally nothing. Which is unusual because normally it reaps kills.
Any advice would be great. |
Yesterday my panther bounced 2 times frontal on an is2 with 1% energie from 10m distance. He could escape and i lost the pather. Great rng
It's so infuriating isn't it? XD
You don't see many IS-2's now days |
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I massively appreciate everyones advice/response.
I have a way better understanding! Thanks |
RNG plus distance I guess. Sov tanks are designed to be effective close range agains axis tanks. Axis tanks generally have better penetration far and are more expensive. To even the odds you must close in on them. The exception is tank destroyers. Su 85 has a different gun and will penetrate reliably from a distance unless it is the heaviest amour. Remeber also that OKW panzer 4 is different (better and more expensive) to ostheer stock p4.
That's a really good point
The issue is i was very close, is it just a case of "rng"?
I mean admitedly i was attacking it from the front. |
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Can someone please explain to me how the bounce rates on armour works?
In 1 game i had a T34/85 bounce 4 shots in a row against a panther
And the same tank also bounced 3 shots on a Panzer 4.
It seems the SU85 (Which has the exact same gun) rarely ever bounces a round on German tanks, except from Tigers.
I find it irritating when a German tank is nearly dead, yet the game wants to rim you and make all your shots do nothing.
Also why do Soviet tanks rarely ever bounce shots? Soviet armour was way more sloped.
Is this just RNG? |
They are ridiculously cheap and can block flanks and sidecap a lot - place a few mines with them, occupy some building blocking them from the enemy, plus merge cons with them (they will become stronger with conscrip models). On top of that use them to repair t70 since it has no crew and they do it for free (unlike repair abilities). When you equopi them with flamers throw them into the assault mix and merge with cons once they start losing models. Give the other one sweepers to look for mines in front of t70 or/and clowncar and for faster repair speed.
Appreciate the reply, thanks a ton |
Basically what achpawel said.
Engineers are super cheap, give you capping power and with a flame thrower they become your CQC unit and have decent damage output as long as you don't run them into enemy squads over open fields. Also tactically you should get used to mine placing, and the second engineer will make it way easier. And you can always go full cheeky-breeky and build a demo charge (90% of the players never turn the camera. So turn the camera and build the demo on the hidden side of the building. Big bushes work very well, too).
You can build a second engineer right from the start when you play with Penals. Send the first engineer capping right away, build T1 with the second engineer and you should hit 300 MP when the building is finished. It's a viable build, and allows you to have squads out on the field quickly to compensate for expensive Penals. With this build an early flamer is almost mandatory. However you can just build 1-3 Penals and go for the second engineer any time you want, that's also good.
The Conscript merge function is very good with flamer engineers and requires a bit of micro. But as long as you don't run into an MG, you basically have a 10 men flamer squad.
The second engineer can later be upgraded with a sweeper when the LV phase begins and is very important to push up with your T70 to keep it safe from mines. Two engineers allow you to repair your T70 and all subsequent vehicles faster. And you need two engineers anyway for the late game. If you're lucky you can vet at least one of them to vet2. Keep that one alive at all costs since it repairs way faster. Don't sacrifice that squad and use it for back line mine placing only.
I usually go for one engineer with flame thrower and one sweeper. However with the new patch I often found myself building two sweepers for the improved repairs.
Now that said and counting all the advantages of a second engineer: It's also perfectly fine to build it only in the late game. One big disadvantage is that you invest 170 MP into what is probably the worst fighting squad in the game. If they get into a fight, park them behind cover and make them hold out until a real fighting squad arrives. But nevertheless they're decent to make MGs move if they flank them. Most Axis players will move the MG even it gets flanked by just an engineer which could be fought off by other units.
Thanks i massively appreciate the advice.
Had a game earlier and absolutely demolished.
Engineers do great, also, I never really used Shock troops before, having 2 of them is just disgusting, it really does destroy infantry. Been playing a lot better |
For SOV I would recommend not going more than 3 Penals for most games since they trade okayish at best in the mid to late game.
The early builds that work for me are (I'm not high ranked though)
- 3 Penals, 1-2 engineers and wait for 1 elite infantry (Guards, Shocks)
- 2 Penals, 1-2 engineers and sniper. Depending on commander choice later elite infantry or another Penal.
- 2 Penals, 2 engineers stall into usually 2 elite infantry (requires some skill to pull off and survive)
Usually one of the Penals is usually upgraded with PTRS when light vehicles arrive unless you get Guards. Mines will other wholes in your anti vehicle defense.
Non Penal builds are often 4xConscripts plus 1-2 support weapon and 1 elite infantry. If you only build 3 Cons you can usually afford one elite infantry more or safely get a second support weapon.
Rule of thumb for all modes: Get ~6 mobile units that are able to cap stuff. Get a second engineer in the late game for repairs.
You see that SOV often relies on their doctrinal infantry. Games without them are possible, but then you have to put pressure on the enemy infantry in some other way, often by artillery. The doctrinal infantry is what allows you to push the Axis players and make them move because they out-compete most Axis infantry at their respective optimum range.
After that SOV often rushes into their T70 which is excellent for the price and timing. If you're on the backfoot, waiting for a SU85 is often the best thing to do in team games.
Kajushas are also great, but I would get 2 other tanks first, usually a T34 and an SU85.
Note that all of these are rule of thumb and some games obviously require you to deviate from that.
I notice you always throw an extra engineer unit, can you tell me the reasons why?
Also thanks for the help and advive! |
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