Are AXIS Unbalanced? Debate

The MG42 I think is overall the most OP unit in the game. It should be 350 MP the way that it is but because it's not it's spammable cancer and has been for years.

on on thread u say mg 42 should cost 350 mp on another u ask for cal 50 to cost 260 mp

People may prefer playing Axis, because they like the appearance of the units, because they like the military history of Germany, because they adhere to the belief in Germany's alledged technical supremacy over the Allies or because they may just like the tech tree and play style of those factions. In any case those people will always say OKW and OST are weak and unbalanced.

..pretty much just like allies will keep forgetting their strengths (sometimens even more than axis imho)

As someone who plays mostly 3v3/4v4 I think that every faction has aspects which are unbalanced in a vacuum. Sometimes they are outright OP such the JLI issue a few months back.

On the whole though I think balance is in a good state, especially compared to how it has been in the past.

The main issues at the moment are the maxim is still in a weird place and not worth buying most of the time. You're better of stealing MG42s.

Light vehicles and (non premium) Mediums have a limited window of use in larger games as everyone tends to rush for panthers and the TDs to counter them.

Non doctrinal rocket artillery is vital in team games where blobbing is rampant. The USF and UKF can suffer heavily if they pick the wrong doctrine.

Conscripts seem to be more convoluted than ever with arguable results.

I'd say now that the main balance issues stem from the maps rather than the factions, as some maps lend themselves heavily to forward retreat points. Other maps are simply too small for 4v4.

I play 1v1 and what You wrote is sort of upside down from 1v1 perspective:

1. MG42 is relatively slow to react to flanks compared to other mgs (long setup and packing times), also slow traverse time. In 1v1 you don't really pin hordes of units so you don't need that powerful suppression. Causing retreat doesn't make infantry disappear for long on small maps. More dmg would be welcome to make opponents drop models - other mgs are better at that so I prefer to steal 50 cal or dshk, for example. Viukers also feels quicker to follow targets in its arc.

2. Light vehicles murder ost, especially t70 or m20 but also AA halftrack, for example.

3. Rocket artillery is needed in 1v1 but not that essential. Battlefield is less crowded and units are more spread on all over the map so it could be quite difficult to deal enough dmg to justify investing in it. It depends, though. OKW walking stuka is best. Katusha is similarly powerful against support weapons. Callipe is good and with werfers you must be really good at aiming. They seem to be the worst.

4. Consripts are not that bad - especially at gaining map presence and hoorahing mgs. They can cap and merge, which makes your units secure the map more effectively. Flame nades are perfect at clearing buildings.

So, basically there is a huge difference between playing 1v1 and 4v4 when it comes to units' performances.

on on thread u say mg 42 should cost 350 mp on another u ask for cal 50 to cost 260 mp

mg42 should cost at least 340mp since it can snipe units with it's incredibly high rof

Is it that the MG42 is amazing? It is.

Or that the Maxim is just awful? It is.

For SOV I would recommend not going more than 3 Penals for most games since they trade okayish at best in the mid to late game.
The early builds that work for me are (I'm not high ranked though)
- 3 Penals, 1-2 engineers and wait for 1 elite infantry (Guards, Shocks)
- 2 Penals, 1-2 engineers and sniper. Depending on commander choice later elite infantry or another Penal.
- 2 Penals, 2 engineers stall into usually 2 elite infantry (requires some skill to pull off and survive)

Usually one of the Penals is usually upgraded with PTRS when light vehicles arrive unless you get Guards. Mines will other wholes in your anti vehicle defense.

Non Penal builds are often 4xConscripts plus 1-2 support weapon and 1 elite infantry. If you only build 3 Cons you can usually afford one elite infantry more or safely get a second support weapon.

Rule of thumb for all modes: Get ~6 mobile units that are able to cap stuff. Get a second engineer in the late game for repairs.

You see that SOV often relies on their doctrinal infantry. Games without them are possible, but then you have to put pressure on the enemy infantry in some other way, often by artillery. The doctrinal infantry is what allows you to push the Axis players and make them move because they out-compete most Axis infantry at their respective optimum range.

After that SOV often rushes into their T70 which is excellent for the price and timing. If you're on the backfoot, waiting for a SU85 is often the best thing to do in team games.
Kajushas are also great, but I would get 2 other tanks first, usually a T34 and an SU85.


Note that all of these are rule of thumb and some games obviously require you to deviate from that.

I notice you always throw an extra engineer unit, can you tell me the reasons why?

Also thanks for the help and advive!

I notice you always throw an extra engineer unit, can you tell me the reasons why?

Also thanks for the help and advive!

They are ridiculously cheap and can block flanks and sidecap a lot - place a few mines with them, occupy some building blocking them from the enemy, plus merge cons with them (they will become stronger with conscrip models). On top of that use them to repair t70 since it has no crew and they do it for free (unlike repair abilities). When you equopi them with flamers throw them into the assault mix and merge with cons once they start losing models. Give the other one sweepers to look for mines in front of t70 or/and clowncar and for faster repair speed.

I notice you always throw an extra engineer unit, can you tell me the reasons why?

Also thanks for the help and advive!

Basically what achpawel said.

Engineers are super cheap, give you capping power and with a flame thrower they become your CQC unit and have decent damage output as long as you don't run them into enemy squads over open fields. Also tactically you should get used to mine placing, and the second engineer will make it way easier. And you can always go full cheeky-breeky and build a demo charge (90% of the players never turn the camera. So turn the camera and build the demo on the hidden side of the building. Big bushes work very well, too).
You can build a second engineer right from the start when you play with Penals. Send the first engineer capping right away, build T1 with the second engineer and you should hit 300 MP when the building is finished. It's a viable build, and allows you to have squads out on the field quickly to compensate for expensive Penals. With this build an early flamer is almost mandatory. However you can just build 1-3 Penals and go for the second engineer any time you want, that's also good.

The Conscript merge function is very good with flamer engineers and requires a bit of micro. But as long as you don't run into an MG, you basically have a 10 men flamer squad.

The second engineer can later be upgraded with a sweeper when the LV phase begins and is very important to push up with your T70 to keep it safe from mines. Two engineers allow you to repair your T70 and all subsequent vehicles faster. And you need two engineers anyway for the late game. If you're lucky you can vet at least one of them to vet2. Keep that one alive at all costs since it repairs way faster. Don't sacrifice that squad and use it for back line mine placing only.

I usually go for one engineer with flame thrower and one sweeper. However with the new patch I often found myself building two sweepers for the improved repairs.

Now that said and counting all the advantages of a second engineer: It's also perfectly fine to build it only in the late game. One big disadvantage is that you invest 170 MP into what is probably the worst fighting squad in the game. If they get into a fight, park them behind cover and make them hold out until a real fighting squad arrives. But nevertheless they're decent to make MGs move if they flank them. Most Axis players will move the MG even it gets flanked by just an engineer which could be fought off by other units.

Basically what achpawel said.

Engineers are super cheap, give you capping power and with a flame thrower they become your CQC unit and have decent damage output as long as you don't run them into enemy squads over open fields. Also tactically you should get used to mine placing, and the second engineer will make it way easier. And you can always go full cheeky-breeky and build a demo charge (90% of the players never turn the camera. So turn the camera and build the demo on the hidden side of the building. Big bushes work very well, too).
You can build a second engineer right from the start when you play with Penals. Send the first engineer capping right away, build T1 with the second engineer and you should hit 300 MP when the building is finished. It's a viable build, and allows you to have squads out on the field quickly to compensate for expensive Penals. With this build an early flamer is almost mandatory. However you can just build 1-3 Penals and go for the second engineer any time you want, that's also good.

The Conscript merge function is very good with flamer engineers and requires a bit of micro. But as long as you don't run into an MG, you basically have a 10 men flamer squad.

The second engineer can later be upgraded with a sweeper when the LV phase begins and is very important to push up with your T70 to keep it safe from mines. Two engineers allow you to repair your T70 and all subsequent vehicles faster. And you need two engineers anyway for the late game. If you're lucky you can vet at least one of them to vet2. Keep that one alive at all costs since it repairs way faster. Don't sacrifice that squad and use it for back line mine placing only.

I usually go for one engineer with flame thrower and one sweeper. However with the new patch I often found myself building two sweepers for the improved repairs.

Now that said and counting all the advantages of a second engineer: It's also perfectly fine to build it only in the late game. One big disadvantage is that you invest 170 MP into what is probably the worst fighting squad in the game. If they get into a fight, park them behind cover and make them hold out until a real fighting squad arrives. But nevertheless they're decent to make MGs move if they flank them. Most Axis players will move the MG even it gets flanked by just an engineer which could be fought off by other units.

Thanks i massively appreciate the advice.

Had a game earlier and absolutely demolished.

Engineers do great, also, I never really used Shock troops before, having 2 of them is just disgusting, it really does destroy infantry. Been playing a lot better

They are ridiculously cheap and can block flanks and sidecap a lot - place a few mines with them, occupy some building blocking them from the enemy, plus merge cons with them (they will become stronger with conscrip models). On top of that use them to repair t70 since it has no crew and they do it for free (unlike repair abilities). When you equopi them with flamers throw them into the assault mix and merge with cons once they start losing models. Give the other one sweepers to look for mines in front of t70 or/and clowncar and for faster repair speed.

Appreciate the reply, thanks a ton