yea they rape them fairly. kt DOES NOT 2 shot mediums, maybe t34/76 in the REAR. it does not matter what it shoots. its COH. BALANCE OVER REALISM.
Kt does 240 per shot, the t34 and Sherman have 640. This applies to the ISU and German mediums as well. |
Or we could use our axis only friends terminology and replace 'fine' with 'underpowered' and 'fantastic' with 'op'.
SU-85 is no competition for JP4. JP got superior stats, optical stealth technology, much better scaling, MUCH better supportive AT that doesn't require specific tier to get and literally no teching cost if you open with med truck.
Had allies something of this caliber we'd be drown in tears within minutes of its release.
That being said, I don't believe either is OP or UP, JP4 is pretty amazing but SU-85 suffers from classic T4 problem-you get units that can be replaced with different units more effectively and earlier(or later if we want to use ISU instead of SU-85).
T4 overall doesn't perform well enough to appeal to anyone to get it.
JP4 has higher armor (irrelevant if they fire at each other, arguably the JP's armor advantage applies only to mediums and infantry at) while the St wins in rate of fire and mobility. Their penetration is nearly identical. The weakness of Soviet t4 is a different story, and so are their threats, but I wouldn't claim the JP4 has superior stats or abilities (focused sight vs camo is a different topic). Perhaps the SU could use an armor buff but this is thinness of allied armor in general.
So the allies have something with less armor (arguably irrelevant with their intended targets) but greater mobility and rate of fire. Yes,SU85 with more armor will drown us in axis tears. |
People who say the ISU cannot be flanked because there is support are forgetting something...you have your own support units too!!! In fact, Axis have better AT troops than Soviets. Schrecks do so much more damage than PTRS!! ISU will hurt you a lot if you attack it from the front and then stall your attack. The ISU does not have very strong armor; it is almost the definition of glass cannon. Use your troops to screen your AT and don't bunch up your men. As you are doing that, move your heavy armor up or flank the ISU with faster tanks.
1. ISU will turn to fight your flankers or stay and shoot your infantry
2. Infantry can get off some schreck volleys and damage ISU
3. Flanking armor can get in some shots off versus ISU
4. Sneak in some AT guns or heavy tanks to blast it from the front
5. Dead ISU or retreating ISU
The ISU will consistently wipe the axis supporting infantry/at guns, actually it's almost always better to shoot infantry squads than armor with it, the reverse is not true for the axis counters which cannot wipe infantry squads. Tiger and King tiger are nowhere near as proficient at both anti infantry and anti tank as the ISU.
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HP/Armor/range/damage/pen near/pen far/rate of fire
ISU-152: 1040/310/70/240/260/200/10.25
Panther: 800/290/50/160/260/220/7.5 (okw) 6.5 (ostheer)
ISU' longer range means the medium and far penetrative stats are still higher.
Chance to pen opposite vehicle near/pen far/dps
ISU-152: 90%/70%/23.4
Panther: 80%/70/21.3 (okw) 24.6 (ostheer)
ISU will have higher pen chances beyond near because it's pen will drop off slower.
Panther is only viable if flaking is possible. This is rather rare against competent opponents. It will lose incredibly hard from the front (obviously) and will get shredded if it loses the engine.
I don't particularly mind the ISU's anti rank capabilities, but it cannot have its current level of effectiveness against both infantry and armor. One shotting OKW squads is extremely common.
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I totally threw this and had the feeling it'd get posted. Doh... Not even mad, gg.
Panserfusilier at grenade bug was really costly as t34s kept getting away  |
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Obviously the video wasn't intended to show exactly how poor of a unit the flak ht is, of course it was poorly used (though I reckon my opponent clicked the lieutenant squad and the flak did the driftin' over several meters before setup thing), but the point is, there is absolutely no reason or 'balance' to have the thing die that quickly to small arms fire. The range in this case bumped up the penetration by 20% (bar has 1.2/1.1/1.0 penetration) but given its target size, accuracy was irrelevant. This thing is too squishy, it should NOT die to small arms fire like that. |
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The raw damage that bullets do is irrelevant to the performance of the unit. It really is DPS that matters, so that is the number you should look for. Relic somewhat recently rebalanced small arms profiles to reduce damage all around, but bumped up accuracy; the net effect is the same but there is less overkill.
Accuracy is determined by the unit moving or not, its suppression state, and what cover the target is in.
I could list the individual bullet damages for you but again this is irrelevant since rate of fire and accuracy come into play, these things must be factored into how much damage a unit can do and hence its DPS.
Essentially, the potential damage of a unit is its damage, multiplied by its rate of fire, multiplied by its accuracy, factoring in things such as aim time, reloads, clip size, cooldown, etc. |
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The point is, it shouldn't die to small arms like that. I wasn't the one using it but I was sure as hell shocked when a single bar nearly killed the thing. It's fine for something like the armoured car with its mobility and firepower to be squishy to small arms, but not something like the flak ht. |
Whether it's him or not it's still a poor example to discuss balance with and you are wrong that the US flak truck would have done any better. It would have still done minimal damage due to the luitenant being in heavy cover and taken the same amount of damage, it wouldn't have even suppressed the squad since it's suppression is lower. And it would have still been finished off by the flanking bazooka squad. Poor play is poor play.
On a note the US AA HT has 15 front/10 rear armor, vs the Flak HT 11 front/5.5 rear.
The American HT would've lasted twice as long, fired while moving, not have had to setup, and likely have had the cannons blow the cover away. |
That video is ridic... driving up point blank vs. Lieutenant behind a huge piece of green cover, facing rear armor. L2P 
That was my lieutenant, btw.
Yes, he drove a flak up rear armor to a lieutenant. I don't think small arms should pen the thing, barring stuff like AP rounds or incendiary mg rounds. There is no way anything similar would happen to American AA HT.
At the moment the Flak HT is almost worthless because its too squishy, too cumbersome with the setup time, and the damage is not potent enough to be a shock unit. |
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