Profile of Pip

Jesus are we really saying that factions dont work without having quickly buildable sandbags on mainline inf? That is where everyone sits? Really? The only faction that MIGHT need sandbags on mainline inf (building at a snails pace) is OKW volks and you likely could get away with them not having them TBH, wouldnt take long to figure out which way to go with a concerted effort.

If every faction loses them they have to actually use the map and they each lose the same asset, did people forget the map still exists without sandbags? Did we forget about engineers?

If Relic wont get rid of them than thats one thing but the idea that the balance team doesnt see the issues with sandbags, even after the patch, is beyond me. The change didnt solve the obvious problem we had before the patch with sandbags. It didnt even put a dent in it.

Do either:

1. +50% or double sandbag build time on mainline inf

Or

2. Remove sandbags from mainline inf entirely

...in both cases keep engineers build time normal

Honestly the more I think about it the more I think they should just be removed from mainline inf, testing will reveal which works best.

There have also been some good ideas in this thread to reduce sandbag spam generally.

Removing them from mainlines and instead giving them to Engineer units might warrant a few changes:

A: The Brit starting unit would probably want to be sappers, so they're still on level ground with all the other factions regarding cover (Though not starting with a Section would be a nerf to Brits. Perhaps instead they could start with the Officer (with rifles), who could also build cover? I'm not sure; Brits are an odd case).

B: OKW really would either need an auxiliary engineer unit (Luftwaffe ground forces?), or you'd need to be able to build a gimped version of Sturmpioneers to supplement their existing one, or as a third option; Sturms would need to be able to erect Sandbags absurdly quickly (This third option would be pretty AIDS)... as otherwise OKW would go from one of the factions with the greatest access to Sandbags, to the faction with undeniably the least access.

There's also the tweaking necessary for the various mainlines, as three of them are ostensibly designed with the fact they can construct cover in mind. As Sanders says, this is a surprisingly complex issue.

Incidentally: Why do a lot of the people agreeing with the idea that mainlines shouldn't have sandbags then go on to state that Conscripts should keep theirs? Even more confusingly, why do others then state that UKF should keep THEIRS? All they're suggesting, at that point, is a nerf to OKW for some reason.


This'd be a lot easier to fix if there were another type of cover in-between light and heavy that you could just make Sandbags into being. That might help sidestep the issue entirely.

-snip-

It might be worth mentioning that unlike all the 0cp callin assault troops, Conscripts do have a snare, and their host of other utilities. The only other "assault" troop with a snare is the MP40 volk upgrade (I think?).

I think comparing Conscripts to MP40 volks (In terms of their individual performance and how they perform relative to the rest of the faction/doctrine) is more relevant than trying to compare them to Assault Grenadiers, Assault Tommies, et al. They're a more similar "unit type".

If I'm honest, my experience is that PPSH conscripts are OK at what they do, but the general consensus does seem to be that they're weak. I think if they need to be buffed, perhaps it should be in some sort of utility sense, to differentiate them even further from Shock Troops. If they do get buffed in a combat sense instead, I think improving their individual PPSH would be a better idea than trying to give them any more, they currently have a vaguely defined niche as an assault troop that retains most of its damage as it loses models, but this isnt really fleshed out. (I still don't really understand what synergy Hit The Dirt is meant to have with them, incidentally)

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There may be a case to have volks build sandbags at a snails pace, otherwise as stated above stands.

People that dont know "what it accomplishes" dont remember how good COH was when the maps mattered because sandbags werent literally everywhere you look.

Haven't Conscripts always had their sandbags, though?

And in CoH1, both Riflemen and Volksgrenadiers had Sandbags, Panzergrenadiers instead had Roadblocks, which were fairly similar. The only mainline that DIDN'T have sandbags were the Infantry sections (Instead having the Slit Trench), though Sappers did have Sandbags in their stead.

The reload ability? I thought it just speeds up reload. It affects suppression?

Doesnt he mean sustained fire? It significantly increases burst duration, doesn't it? That increases suppression through an overall greater rate of fire.

You do know that VSL grens still have best HMG and sniper in game supporting them?

The best HMG, certainly, its undeniable that the MG42 is the strongest all-round MG, though HMGs become less relevant as the game drags on due to increased yellow cover, and the prevalence of things such as Rocket Arty.

But best sniper? What, in terms of availability? The Ostheer sniper fires slightly faster than the Soviet and British one (Significantly faster than the brit one at vet3), but relative to squad sizes of each faction, the Soviet sniper is actually stronger (I.E, it kills/bleeds faster). (Yes, even with VSL, and you don't have that immediately). The only thing holding the Soviet sniper back is the Soviet tech system.

If we're going from abilities, it's a little hard to determine which is more valuable between the Flare and Incendiary Shot, and the Brit sniper is in a category of its own, with its ability to damage vehicles with its autofire (generally relevant only against lights), temporarily debuff enemy vehicles with Crit Shot, and call in artillery.