Uhhh.... Everybody is complaining about the wrong problems again.
"OMG, relic y u force meh 2 pay money for commander, i haz no monies, wah wah. Itz not like we can get em 4 free when playin da gamez." Oh wait...
It's not the matter of there being day one Commander DLCs that is bad. No one is forcing you to buy it. It's simply there for people that don't have time to play the game so they can pay for it now instead of unlocking it for free later.
What people should be complaining about is war spoils. The system doesn't work properly because of duplicates and other issues.
As for people still moaning about Relic trying to make a quick buck nobody is forcing you to buy anything. Games are not cheap to make now days. The only things you can't earn in war spoils is factions/expansions, remember that as well.
Played around 200 games since they implemented war spoils and only one time got a doctrine and it was a duplicate. You say that like this is BF3 where you can grind sniper class for a day and unlock all the gadgets if you play well but its not even close. Microtransactions inside a full priced game are bad, day 1 DLC is bad, and Relics extra content is not worth what they charge for it. CoH2's DLC is some of the worst in the industry, and nobody should be complacent and accept this as the new standard. |
Opportunity cost.
Zero tactical tradeoff, like everything else I listed. |
if there are upgrades it needs to have a tactical trade-off
What stone tablet did you find that etched in to? Upgrading tank MGs has no tradeoff. Upgrading DPS has no tradeoff. Upgrading Shrek on a Volks practically has no tradeoff, the small loss of firepower is more than made up for by a good AT weapon that also fast tracks your veterancy. CoH1 Riflemen had no tactical tradeoff far BARs. What CoH1 did have was a higher opportunity cost because there were other things to spend fuel on besides a vehicle, and the few global upgrades in CoH2 are negligibly cheap and pretty underwhelming from a shock upgrade perspective. |
At longer ranges I haven't noticed the SU76 barrage being that good both as and against Soviets. But I have seen it annihilate a charging shrek squad multiple times with a closer range "oh shit" barrage. A bit more accurate at range and a further minimum range would be nice because right now the only way to have somewhat consistent success with long distance barraging is firing with your entire SU76 blob and maybe one will hit the intended spot. Right now they are basically doing the opposite of what indirect fire should do. |
If you don't like this model so much so don't buy it!
Don't bleed out of your ass over it.
Seriously people.
SPEAK WITH WALLETS, because your forum rants are worth crap if you will go and buy it regardless.
If you will buy it, IT MEANS IT WORKS SO WHY CHANGE IT.
Seriously, how stupid can you be?
The majority of the people playing this game would rather get more wins instead of taking a stand against bad business practices, so the minority that is strongly against the p2w content is forced to either give in or play at a disadvantage because they don't have enough support to make an impact. What you are suggesting is the equivalent of cancelling high speed internet because all the high speed ISPs have shitty customer service and stability. Many people already tried boycotting the DLC but enough weak minded people bought it anyways so it never made a difference. As a result many people just buy DLC when it goes on sale for 50-75% off. |
The news that three of the six British commanders being day one DLC was not much of a shock knowing Relic.
But it still smells of disgusting business practice, if relic were desperate for money that bad they should have upped the price by an extra few euros. Rather than separating half of the commander content (That means units like the para air landing officer, Churchill crocodile, Airlanding glider and para medics and a hefty amount of abilities are effectively locked behind a paywall) making people hate their guts and open CoH2 up to the P2W argument again.
Relic are borderline on EA tier DLC milking as it stands, the worst part is they seem ignorant of the problem. Instead offering the likes of the broken war spoils system in an attempt to groom the playerbase to frustrate them and buy yet more DLC that should have came included with the faction.
Its actually worse than EA. I got BF4 when it was selling full price and recently bought the premium season pass for $40. That is all DLC for the game, except for buying the shortcut to unlock all gadgets (which isn't really content so it doesn't count). Got everything BF4 had to offer for $100 total. I got the CoH2 digital CE for $100, the WFA for $15, a few extra commanders for ~$10 and I still don't have any WFA tank skins or most of the DLC commanders, and now here comes another faction. I'm not going to complain about them charging for new campaigns and theater content because extra work clearly went in to that. But if you buy the core game and a new faction you should definitely get all commanders and I would like to see the skins be more attainable because I haven't gotten any for WFA in war spoils yet.
I feel fine with all the DLC. It creates the funding needed to support the game for a longer time. I don't understand why people aren't taking into consideration that the Developers aren't modders. It's a paying job to support themselves and their families in an expensive city like Vancouver. The money to provide their upkeep has to come from somewhere.
It's not like the Relic Team are doing this for free and Sega pockets all the money. Every balance update, every maintenance session and every single staff member must be paid for (Full time hours, benefits, insurance...). There's only so much you can do with only one flow of income (Full game sales). Hence why DLC income helps extend the life of the game and the Relic staff's careers.
I'm more than happy to help support the talented team that made this game without having to buy multiple copies of the game.
If they made the DLC a few dollars more and included all commanders and skins that would be more acceptable. Milking microtransactions from a non f2p the way they currently are is wrong.
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I think balancing factions will the next big thing after introducing UK.
That wouldn't be some big announcement lol |
What I'm curious about is why you originally decided to bring up the supposed support of these truly elite players have for your position when you can't actually cite any. The closest thing to evidence you've offered is Aimstrong's point, but increasing reload on PAKs is different from giving light tanks more HP (making PAKs reload slower also reduces their effectiveness versus mediums, for instance, and is also a change specific to just that AT gun, not AT guns in general).
1) Aimstrong didn't just message me to say "Paks were changed because they 2 shotted M8s" we had a 5 minute conversation, and it was obvious we were on the same page about this thread.
2) There have been several videos from some of the best fps players like Levelcapgaming, Jackfrags, and one of the best analytical cod players Ozerec that discuss how they disliked the faster ttk in certain games because it discouraged more player movement. Tychocelchuu (literally one of the first to start shoutcasting coh a long long time ago) has also talked about it related specifically to coh in his vids before, and everything he says is in alignment with what the highly competitive players want, he's never subjectively bitching about personal l2p problems. Now I've given two coh specific sources, in addition to the competitive gaming community at large backing more survivability to facilitate more movement. Couldn't give less of a shit if you find some top 50 ladder player that disagrees.
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Again, how much health you want the T70 to have? Other light tanks? Other light vehicles?
Mid game vehicles need more than 320. Could be 330, could be 400. Doesn't matter so long as 2 hits does not kill it, and does not deal heavy engine damage (light damage is ok).
Right now by timing, versatiliy and specially firepower, the T70 shouldn't get +10/+80 hp. I've said countless times that currently T70 and Quad are too effective at wiping units and its currently a good thing they are 2 shotted for the sake of some semblance of balance. Not even going to bother responding to the next person to bring this up since half the people in this thread are reading selectively.
PD: infantry dies on 2s to grenades and we are not complaining. (Elite infantry throwing) Dodging grenades is very rewarding for high micro players, bad comparison. When mid game vehicles are dying in two AT gun hits your micro is bottlenecked by the fact that even if you react immediately after the first hit its too late to escape the arc before it can take a second shot in most situations. Only two scenarios it doesn't get two shots (not counting use of smoke ability) is driving around a shot blocker and driving through its point blank narrow arc, or being parked at max range and reversing out. Driving laterally across arc from further distance and it will get a 2nd shot most times. Driving in to its arc and then stopping and reversing out it will also get two shots off.
So we go back into vCoh nostalgia. Even then, I haven't seen those guys agreeing with YOU in the this thread or in the sense that COH2 needs these changes. So your criteria now is top 10, good, again, i haven't seen Jesulin, Omgpop, Simon (Aimstrong?), Luvnest or any other "elite" player complaining about it.
PD2: i somehow got top 40 as SU and AT top3 Who cares about ranking, but don't make your opinion "plural" by assuming that "top players" also agree with your opinion.
I brought that up since you wrote this:
"Top players agree with my logic, but here come all the average and below players complaining because they aren't very good at killing light vehicles"
You don't need to be a vcoh player to see the inconsistency between the arcade style Halo spartan infantry and MoW style mid game vehicle play. Just because those players aren't active on the forums doesn't mean they agree with you or disagree with me, the best of the best almost never engage with the theory crafting plebs in balance talk (Aimstrong told me on steam he agreed with my points, in fact he was the one that mentioned the change to Paks because I completely forgot they were 2 shotting M8s in 2.601).
And by "top tier" players I did not mean those who are or have been top 10, I meant the truly elite. Jesulin and OMGPOP have been the only ones this game has seen in 1v1, nobody else has been been dominating like them or the vcoh players I named. If you know anything about NBA VonIvan is like Dwayne Wade vs Michael Jordan compared to them; unquestionably a good player, but not going down as one of the best ever. But anyway I was not talking specifically about CoH2s top 50 or so players, but elite players in general for any competitive game that are against dying super fast. That is more fitting for more casual realistic games, which I am not bashing in any way because I play more those than coh these days, but when I come and play an arcade competitive game I expect it to feel like an arcade competitive game. |
CS:GO is the "only" real FPS competitive and the TTK is really low. Some steps down i'll say we could find CoD (which i'm not sure there is a PC competitive scene bar the old CoD4) and BF. Both of them still have a low TTK.
Honorable mention to Quake (combat may drag out a bit more but it's way faster paced and there are still high damage weapons).
In CSGO the TTK is really low in the hands of the pros and very good players because head shots are so rewarding, in the hands of a average player it feels more like a medium ttk game like cod or BF. The first game that comes to mind is cod ghosts where the ttk was noticably quicker than all games before it was cod ghosts. "Low" ttk games are realistic games like Insurgency, Arma, Red Orchestra, etc. Those games put huge emphasis on smart movement rather than mlg420noscope twitch shooter skills. You could say those games are more immersive, and fittingly finding yourself in the wrong place in the wrong time (bound to happen sometimes) no matter how good you are, is usually a death sentence. In strategy games the MoW and Wargame series fall in to that fairly realistic category.
CoH is a competitive arcarde style game, so it makes no sense for such harsh punishment just for making a misstep that even the best players are going to make. It isn't consistent with the way the rest of the game works either, infantry units don't instantly die for walking in to a MG in red/no cover, so mid game vehicles shouldn't be doomed for entering a AT arc without a chance for good micro to save it.
Hmm i think none of the top players (let's say those around top200) have agreed with you in this thread.
Ginnungagap/Strummingbird/comm_ash/LeYawn/VonIvan/me
Attentive players won't get their light tanks get killed easily. You forget that the T70 has both repair and scout abilities in order to increase his survivability. Use it next time.
None of the names you mentioned are top tier players, no offense. VonIvan is the closest, but the only true elite players CoH2 has seen so far is OMGPOP and Jesulin. The guys that were responsible for last coh1 patch included Seb, Sepha, Guderian, Aimstrong....actual legendary players. And I was top 75 in this game a for a few months after it came out when it was the main game I was playing, plus around top 100 in vcoh when it had 10k daily players and down to top 25 as the playerbase eroded. Just because I got back in to coh about two weeks ago doesn't take away from my knowledge of how the franchise works.
I didn't want to get in to "whats your ranking" bullshit, but since you brought it up, I'll bite. |