60Td is also a click of a button.
Wehr smoke has been a faction design since day 1. Same with blitz. Every ability is a click button. Dont understand what you trying to say? Does clicking smoke or blitz, somehow teleports the tank from A to B and immune to fire? No, you still need to make the exit choice, you still can attack ground, drive a wrong turn, and the smoke doesnt cover you.
Usf crew repair while faction design, is broken. It was acceptable back when their tanks are more squishy, where Axis have armor that counts. Still the ability to exit, build new units, enter. Totally broken. While not the same topic, where are you on this? Why sound so high and mighty?
What are you talking about?
Stay on the topic, this has nothing to do with tank destroyers, gun range or whatever. PTac is instant activation at one click without even the need to stop, many other abilities require another click on the map, a unit aiming or the vehicle stopping to perform it. And that is also the main thing that this topic is about, not crew repairs, not other faction features.
Ok smoke shots for P4 P5 P6, but you buff their turret tracking, their reload, their speeds, their moving accruacy.
There is your reason for smoke shells firing from turrets instead of their asses.
Why? Or actually not. Open another topic for this, but if I remember correctly there was already a discussion not too long ago about Tiger I turret traversal. |
Come on now. Allies have doc access to crew repairs on all tanks that can fully repaired them. Should we add delays or cap at 70%?
Completely different topic which is also partly wrong. Stay focused.
Heck USF simply ignores this and get free repairs/popcap cheat.
Completely different topic again. Also you should not compare faction design features with a change to a doctrinal ability that has nothing to do with said feature.
And yes USF and UKF have non-doc smoke.
Smoke canister is a skill shot that is required for Axis meta these days against oppressive 60Td. Nothing more nothing less.
They do, just like Axis tanks have Blitzkrieg as utility. And Allied smoke is an actual skill shot that requires targeting and micro and also stops your tank. Panzer Tactician is one click of a button.
If you want people to debate seriously with you, you should start debating on a serious basis as well and not repeat bad or plain wrong arguments over and over again. |
I mean it's not like it needs to be an all or nothing thing. It could easily be only available to certain units if need be.
Alternatively we could just add like a 3 second drop time on the current smoke so it doesn't act as an autoattack shield you use after you take a shot.
+1 to this.
Not sure why balance team has not implemented a delay yet or (as far as I know) given an argument why it would be a bad idea to implement.
What would also be a great ability is the Sherman smoke dischargers. You can keep driving if you micro well, use it offensively and defensively and your tank does not lose much DPS if you do it correctly. On the other hand it would be a nerf for players who are not able to use it and therefore create a slight learning curve and reward micro. The Smoke shell like the Cromwell's is also good, but way more situational as it causes your tank to rotate the turret and aquire a different target. |
/locked
Please do at least basic research before opening a complaint/balance suggestion. Otherwise you will create confusion for newer players. |
I thought this way too.
Imo cons were never mediocre before, just underused under explored. The 7 man buff incentivised player to try cons and discovered they are pretty solid and hold their own when play to their strengths.
Cos t70 was not touched and 7man comes late. So what filled the gap was simply cons are never mediocre.
I made an old whiner topic about new 7cons vet needs tone down, so thankfully post wc19 findings tally with me.
As for is2, similarly i felt Wehr/axis lack pen and the nerf to axis armor values now puts allies armour ahead in hth. Good now we can consider this too with pro results analysis
I disagree with the first Conscript part. Cons were an overall worse unit, even for the price. Against OST they were kind of okay (talking about 2v2 mode where I have most experience), against OKW they were an absolutely bad choice. When I switched to Penals things were getting a lot easier. Cons vet bonuses are very good, but since the squad itself lacks any upgrade losing a Conscript in the late game is very harsh since you cannot boost its DPS to vet it more quickly. The mobilized Reserves experience buff makes a lot of sense in my eyes. Now with Volks being very slightly nerfed and Panzergrenadiere coming earlier for OST, we cannot directly compare to the very old balance anymore, but in my opinion Cons were clearly a worse choice overall, which is also backed up by the metas in all of the tournaments at that time, just like Cons being a bit overbuffed is (also only my opinion) backed up by the most recent tournament. Of course you are free to disagree.
I think the IS2 is part of a general heavy tank problem. All of them come too early now. Some units might need special adjustments, but the first step should be to push heavies back a little and then see how the meta changes and if/what further changes are needed. Timing is a very big deal, as we could see with a lot of units like the Panzergrenadiere.
Soviets are fine, maybe T1 and maxims need changes to become viable, it’s okw and ostheer that need tostop crutching on heavies and improve. Same with UKF.
Fix heavies (more CP and more expensive) and soviets will be fine.
T1 did not get any major changes in the last patches. T1 was very viable and meta before the patches for a very long time. It now just got overshadowed by a late game low-bleed build using Conscripts. |
Couldn't read all of the above posts, so sorry if some points have already been covered extensively. My take on the issue:
Previously, SOV was very bland since the only viable build was T1 Penals into T70. This was because 1. Conscripts were only mediocre and hard to replace in the late game and 2. The Maxim in T2 lacks a lot of firepower. So the best bet was to try to survive the vehicle game until you get a T70. To make Conscripts more viable, balance team introduced a late game upgrade - Mobilized Reserves. That was basically the only major SOV specific change (apart from IS2, which was part of an overall heavy overhaul).
I think we should look at IS2 and Conscript problem as two different things. The easiest solution would be to tone down the late game buff of mobilized reserves. Conscripts have not become better during early game, but are the main reason why SOV is hard to bleed in the late game. Just up the MP cost a little bit or reduce the DPS boost in cover so that they are less efficient. |
the numbers contradict each other.
first the numbers are lower than in the ffirst row then higher. That would mean the roundis not always better
Exactly this is what they say, and also what Vipper said.
Apart from that: If this discussion does not improve in the next posts, thread will be closed. |
Ritter you should seriously for once try to base your complaints on some data.
Vipper has shown now multiple times that your initial claim is false. If you believe that his stats are a reflection of an old build, then do the tests yourself and request this from others. |
I'm against that change.
Blitzkrieg is a very good ability for both offense and defense and easy to use. Hull down is not, so thtis would be a decent nerf to OST tanks. Blitzkrieg also allows mediums to flank better and threaten TDs. |
Knowing Relics history of balance.... well, lets just say I don't expect much balance of them in regards to anything.
Vanila factions were equally broken as DLC ones, only difference here is vanila were balanced a bit already when DLCs released.
Just look at any single relic RTS, doesn't matter if base or DLC factions, they ALL were broken op.
My comment was not about being "broken" in a sense that the faction has bad designs, not enough viable strategies etc, but in the sense that they were designed to be too strong on purpose to generate a higher perceived value for the players.
Design issues are often fixable and I can forgive that. Even our current balance team with years of experience in the game has to correct their own changes sometimes because even they can't foresee all consequences, but exploiting players like that is not forgivable.
Relic/Sega won't see a single penny or any support from me if this should become the case, and I hope that the players will "vote" like this as well. |