I did more tests and it seems that a close fight is somekind equal with huge rng involved, since few times Penals were able to win with 3 models left while other times Obers won without losing a single model.
Tho it's good for Obers that pure long range infantry can fight and win with close range infantry.
It's like Thompsons Paras winning long range fight against Falsch (close range vs medium/long range)
the penal is actually kind of a long range unit. I've updated the chart and the penal's dps at close range is not that amazing. it's a bit better than the volks but not by much. |
Emplacements just need to be standardized. Decrewing for some factions and not others is ridiculous. Schwer attack ground might be nice.
After the patch I'm ok with the british emplacements powerlevel. Paying for brace made a bigger difference than I suspected. I think that addressing the super cheap tanks would pretty much fix the simcity > tank spam issue.
I don't like emplacements but with out them the british need redesigning.
The changes to emplacements may be a bit harsh, and if such changes were made, they would need to be discussed with the community first (or tested in a beta). However, I feel the 'campy' nature of emplacements conflicts with the core "mobility and positioning" theme of CoH. (IMO) Emplacements should be used to support your army; a Pak44 should be positioned further back in your forces to support your units via its range; not in the front-lines to be a main 'attack' unit. The same should be said of something like the bofors (or OKW flak); it performs very well against most units, but should only be used to secure flank or key point behind your front-lines (i.e. to prevent a cutoff). Right now, though, the bofors is being used as a front-line unit, often placed on VPs, forward fuel points or other important areas, and is being used to deal a dramatically large amount of damage. This is only possible due to its incredible resilience.
A change to the survivability (and not damage) would result in the desired change; the emplacements being used in a defensive position and used to supplement damage. I only suggest damage changes (such as to the OKW truck) due to some of them over-performing against all types of targets. An emplacement should be good against mainly one type of units, not all types: AT-gun emplacements are great vs. vehicles, mortars are great against static units and structures, but units like the OKW Flak Truck and Bofors are great against anything within range. By removing damage to vehicles, the damage 'triangle' would be much more balanced: AT vs. vehicles, mortars vs. structures and static units, flak vs. infantry.
you're making the emplacement issue a lot more complicated than it really is.
the only emplacement the british "need" is the mortar emplacement. the bofor is entirely optional and mutually exclusive with the AEC.
the 17 pounder is redundant with the 6 pounder and firefly in the british army.
the mortar emplacement is the only emplacement without a mobile alternative, that's it. One type of emplacement.
all this stuff about redesigning the british is ignoring the mobile army they already have and complicating the issue. |
It's not like they could buy LMGs. The british supply truck is a very limited case, other than that no LMGs at all.
Penals ar 100% fine
limited case but easy to do.
Tested vet 3 Obers vs vet 3 Penals standing on oposite site of a sandbag.
Obers melted Penals losing only 1 model.
No upgrades for Obers nor Penals.
https://www.coh2.org/replay/54569/penal-vs-ober
here's a replay with more tests. the result is a lot closer in my case. |
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both the stuart and the m10 are decent at their job. there's no need to replace them. |
Failed to inflict significant loses and mp drain in early game where you are much stronger? Failed to secure resourse advantage? Failed to use cons as a support unit for support weapons/shocks/guards which should hold the field? Failed to wipe axis infantry with many tools in your disposal to get rid of their vet and weapon upgrades?
Just first thing which come to mind.
telling people to just dominate their opponent and render the mid-late game moot is not a very useful advice.
and most people skip the conscript and just buy shock/guards/support weapon instead. |
Can penals snare? Do penals have a grenade? If you go grenadiers do you have do give up AT?
This type of linear X vs Y thought is what ruins balance. Going penals is a risk (light vehicles), the reward should be good AI.
Penal get a flamethrower and the satchel. The both of those combine make penal one of the best garrison and anti-cover unit in the game. That's the penal's "grenade".
the only thing the penal doesn't get is the tank snare.
Even Vet 3 Obers (without LMG upgrade) vs Vet 3 Penals win vs them at long rang and close range so I'd say they are priced and act perfectly fine.
how close are we talking about? in my test the fights were very close. the penal were nearly matching a unit 100 mp more expensive with a similar role.
Oh boy here we go, something that just got buffed now must be nerfed because it's not useless anymore.
Reminder that light vehicle play does exist.
Reminder that you actually need to get them to vet 3.
Seriously, if it's OKW veterancy no one says anything but any other faction must be nerfed.
I am not saying to revert the penal back to their previous useless state. I am saying that are adjustment to be made. |
That award easily goes for the turret-less tank-destroyers (with the exception of the ISU-152, Elefant, and Jagdtiger of course). Caught an SU-85 out of position? Oh well, it can't even fire back at you, because it has neither mobility nor turret.
extra hp, smaller size, and/or extra armor do wonder for survivability. casemate TD require you to flank and are decent in trading shots. Flanking the jackson is nice but not required. You just need to get close.
The Jagdtiger also got a pretty big buff last patch since it doesn't get randomly stunned anymore. |
Get Vet 3 for them first, before crying, seriously...
Stop whining about "Vet 3 *unitname* performs too good, nerf, pls". It's ridiculous, almost all overveted units perform too good. Volks Vet 5 are bad? No, they dominate. Grens Vet 3 are bad? No, they getting invisible scopes on rifles and starting to snipe my units...
Vet 3 penals are fine, they should be "OP", cos they are not simply "mainline infantry", like same Volks or Grens (mainline of soviets are still shitty cons), they are kinda "Obers" of USSR. So, let them perform like they should in that role. And you know what - it's not such a big problem for to counter them, using such simple tools like: HMG, AI infantry, all kinds of vechiles (since they have 0 AT).
Deal with it, bro.
penal total veterancy at vet 3: +69% accuracy -23% incoming accuracy, -20% cool down, flare, hoorah
grenadier total veterancy at vet 3: +40% accuracy, -23% incoming accuracy, -20% cool down, medkit, 25% faster recharge on rifle nade.
the penal have a far better bonus. that 29% extra bonus make a big difference. The penal without the flamethrower can actually beat a vet 3 lmg grenadier at long range. |
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their additional +30% accuracy bonus at vet 3 is too much for their current svt-40. They had that bonus back when the svt40 were crap, but the current penal just turn insane once they hit vet 3.
the 30% accuracy bonus at either vet 3 or vet 3 should be removed. |
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