Profile of Firesparks

Priest it's just a regular unit. Not good nor Suxton bad.

the calliope make the Priest look like a pop gun.

And I can't help but laugh at arguments like these.

2x222 can park in front of garrisoned maxis at point blank range and destroy it before 222 will lose half HP.
Squads without access to AT nades can be just rushed and forced to retreat with 222 not loosing even 25% of health.



True, however vanila 251 is not supposed to deal damage in the first place and 222 up close can not be ignored, brits, vet0 rifles and penal heavy soviets before guards arrive can't force it off.


M20 with upgrade vs 222? Still, M20 is almost purely AI, so we can skip this if we ignore zook crew.
Greyhound vs 222?
AEC is native hardcounter for lights below puma, its costs are much greater then a pair of 222s, yet it got nothing on them.


I don't have problem with a pair of 222s routing T70.
Its the cost of these 222s that makes it questionable.


Every time there was a game between T1 soviets and ost or non bofors brits vs ost.


I may lean to agree that 220mp may be worth 40fuel in performance, but there is no excuse for AEC(getting just 1 is tremendous cost, especially in menpower) or 1v1 situation vs upgraded greyhound.



Please stop being so fixated on T70, there are other lights which 222 owns for the cost effortlessly.


By your logic, should we decrease costs of M3, M20 or Greuhound? Their time of relevance is comparable, yet they cost much more and are hardly excelling in their roles without heavy infantry support as well.

You are really underestimating what 222 can do.

USF have bazooka, and soviet have at nade. both of those are excellent against 222.

the 222 have weak armor to begin with. you can destroy them with small arms fire. If the 222 actually become a problem, the USF have bazooka and the soviet have at nade. Both of which will easily kill a 222. (british is a separate issue)

The t70, luch, and stuart are all light tanks with the ability to win a game due to their anti-infantry power. By comparison the 222 have a broken mg that make it unreliable against infantry. This turn the 222 into an anti-vehicle specialist. it is a specialized hard counter. A specialist counter should be cost efficient at their job, because it's the one thing they are good at.

222 doesn't win games the way stuff like the way t70/luch/stuarts do, unless it's against the british. the 222 merely allow the wehr to survive into panzer4.

a 444 isn't really "cheap" either. 420 mp is quite a bit of map. The t-70 cost less manpower than a 222, much less a 444.

If we use relic's fuel to manpower conversion rate (5:1). a 444 cost the equivalent of 570 mp while a t70 cost 550 mp. this mean the 444 is a equal investment into units that are geared toward anti-vehicle duty, while the t70 is a generalist tank.


is the m20 obsolete? I will agree, but the wehr needs an effective light tank or a counter. Pak and schreck just don't cut it. Unless the wehr get an entirely new unit, the 222 is the closest thing they've got to a light tank. At the least the 222 is a specialist unit. Don't break an entire faction just to fix one unit.

I was always advocating for 222 buffs, but relic remade it into pretty much a light tank vehicle with scout car price with constant buffs and price reductions.

Cost effectiveness of 222 is over the roof while risk associated to cost is extremely low.

Hell, if you know how to, it can even effectively drop retreating squads if they are at around 10-20% health(shocks included) with a little bit of micro and retreat path blocking.

If the health is to stay at light tank level, price should go up.
If its to remain cheap, while rendering all other lights of its tier useless, its health needs to drop so you don't hardcounter 2-4x more expensive units effortlessly.

Had any allied light be this cost effective, the shitstorm would be remembered by relics grand kids.

the 222 is a mini puma. It's a cheap anti vehicle specalist. Sov and USF infantry have no issue dealing with 222 and they will usually have their own light vehicle as well. Only the british really have any problem against the 222.

it fit the wehr's own to counter the stuart and t70 without hurting the aggressive allies too much.

the biggest reason the 222 got buffed to 320 hp is to give the wehr a light vehicle counter.

https://www.coh2.org/news/52176/esl-go4coh2-statistics-part-iii-commanders

During ESL, the most popular doctrine pick for the wehr was the mobile defense doctrine, at 32%. This is for the obvious reason that the mobile defense doctrine have access to the puma, the counter to the USF stuart and t70.

Turning the 222 into a generalist vehicle at the expense of price would rob the wehr of a potent light vehicle counter, which it desperately needs.

as cost effective as the 222 is, it can't really turn the game around for the wehr unless it's against the british.

Dude, you should get a job as a politician. Politicians have a knack of completely ignoring the subject or question and instead twist the conversation so they can focus on pushing their own message or agenda.

Everyone acknowledges the t0 morter is a problem for OST, you on the other hand seem to think that usf's limited or restrictive counters to mgs in buildings are fine. You utterly refuse to concede any ground to try and improve the gameplay. Most people are in favour of tweaking both the usf and ost to find a better balance, yet you just go on and on about nerfing usf.

Stop comparing to soviets, the tech cost are vastly different.

Stop saying a difference of 60manpower at start of game is huge when rifles cost 20mp more than mg42 and 40mp more than grens.

Stop complaining about the huge build time of ost t1, its 15 seconds. Not 30 seconds and not a minute like you claimed in your post.
Stop saying ost cannot get to fuel before usf when there are two fuels on most maps (1v1).

Stop saying jeeps and flamers are a significant boost while quietly refusing to acknowledge that flames are already present in doctrine and a 20 fuel jeep will delay usf light vehicle and tech.

Stop trying to sell grenades as the solution. They are a significant teching choice that is no guarantee against quality opposition. Yes I know grenades have smoke but smoke will not necessarily get an mg out of a house (unless you have flames as well). Remember if he cannot see you, you also cannot see him. In the open is different but the issue is houses.

If i haven't said enough times already, move the morter out of usf t0 so ost has time to get established.

the wehr early game have been playing perpetual catch up to the USF early ever since release.

go to http://coh2chart.com/ , and take a look at the 1v1 win ratio for USF and Ostheer as far back as it will take you. It's clear that the USF consistently hold an advantage over the ostheer.

the ostheer's static gameplay is frankly an necessity against the USF. All this fuss about giving USF an early counter against mg, but yet ignoring how screwed the wehr grenadier are against the rifleman.

A "bad" game for USF is one where they don't dominating the wehr early game before the usf's weak late game show up. There's a reason why the calliope and pershing were the most popular USF commanders during ESL. They both significantly improve the USF's late game.

Giving the USF an early direct counter to the wehr's mg42 is ignoring the shaky ground the wehr stand on in the beginning.

the rifleman cost more than the grenadier and the mg42 because the rifleman is better. The rifleman is the best starting infantry unit in the game. Don't complain about paying more for better units.