Well maybe, but then I haven't argued for any of those changes so I don't know what they have to do with me. I'm only trying to address what I see as the problem of Wehr vulnerability to squad wipes.
Regardless of Army then as well since the Axis are not the only ones with 4 man squads.
Plus I never said they were similar, I only stated that they had the same number of men in the squad and largely the same role, Sturmpioneers not having to build any of the base structures unlike the Pioneers but unlike them they have a more dangerous job of totting around a Panzerschreck fighting off enemy vehicles, and being a more expensive unit overall.
we are not saying that grenadier doesn't have an issue. we are saying there areother way to deal with the problem beside giving them a fifth man and ruining their identity.
Better RA, better squad spacing, nerfing AOE, more HP etc. Giving them a fifth man is such a drastic change that we prefer to use it as the last option.
For all the option we've been mentioning, the two of you seems obsessiveness with the idea of giving them a fifth man. |
new changes:
sapper now cost 234 mp by default, and 260 mp after size upgrade. reinforcement cost unchanged
sapper population cost lowered to 5/6
tommies now cost 252 mp by default, and 280 mp after size upgrade. reinforcement cost unchanged |
UKF sappers could also use a loose formation like Tommies/axis infantry in the mod.
Another thing you could do with Sappers is cause the 5-man upgrade to increase the cost of calling in new Sappers.
Give then changes to received accuracy for Tommies/Sapper, I can't really recommend an appropriate price for your mod. However, for the live version, I would say that:
- 4-man sappers should cost about 215-225
- 5-man sapper should cost about 240-260
(reinforcement cost should not go above 26, since that's the only unit that can be safely used to recrew team weapons for Brits, currently).
I will most likely make it 210/260mp. |
bar: cost decreased to 50 munition
UKF: tommies squad now cost 250 mp by default, and 280 mp after size upgrade. reinforcement cost unchanged.
(fixed an issue where people can still buy double m1919a6 or bren) |
50 meter is really too much considering its anti-infantry capability( and I believe the tiger, pershing, and king tiger are also slighty guilty here, but they were buffed partly in respond to the comet).
the white phosphorous round also have too much range. It should be separated from the stock smoke round and get a range nerf. |
there are other ways to buff the grenadier's hp without giving them another squad member.
better RA
better spacing
or even 2 more hp (considering how much 82 hp did for sniper)
Grenadier being 4 men is part of their identity. As someone who've played coh1 since release, a 5 men grenadier wouldn't feel right. |
If that change goes through I see no reason why even commanders with 1919s would pick them over BARs, like ever, you would be missing out on firepower.
the m1919 originally had suppression fire as an ability. |
Good points.
Now:
- Change the cost of 4-men Tommy squads to 252 MP (or round it up somehow)
- Every time the player summons a (4-man squad) they pay 252MP.
- If the player wants the squad bumped up to 5-man, they have to pay 280 MP (summoning the squad + reinforcing)
PS: Another thing that affects infantry combat but doesn't show up in the stats at first glance is an additional 0.9 received accuracy modifier applied to all Brit infantry (Tommies, Sappers, Commandos), while those units are behind cover. I don't know if you intend to keep it or not.
it would be easier to make the tommies cost 250 by default and then 280 after upgrade.
trying to implement your suggestion is going to run into math problem. 28/(252/4) = .4444... . Squads are also seems to be hardcoded to enter the battlefield at max member by default. Making them enter "short handed" would require some tricks.
and I do know about the .90 ra bonus in cover. I want to keep it since it encourage the use of cover. |
2. Brits have strong tanks. However, their upgrades are entirely geared towards infantry.
- If upgrades aren't meant to make your infantry strong, they become skippable
- If upgrades are meant to make your infantry strong, then this might cause a balance issue (strong infantry AND tanks)
The changes you propose in the mod, handle issue #1 really nicely. However, I worry whether we arrive at the situation described in #2. One option would be to make upgrades really useful, but also really expensive (thus, getting all of them becomes difficult). Say:
- Make UKF (non-skippable) Tech costs amount to 250-ish like other factions
- Make each individual upgrade useful, and make it so that researching everything + tech costs would amount to 320 fuel or something
- (no idea about manpower costs though)
However, even in a long-ish game, getting all upgrades will not be an issue.
Perhaps a more sustainable solution might be substituting some of the infantry upgrades with tank-geared upgrades. e..g, make vanilla tanks weaker, but offer the player to fork additional cache to unlock them. For instance:
- A tank commander upgrade before you are allowed to purchase individual tank commanders
- Warspeed upgrade
- Heavy engineers upgrade
- etc
the changes to the british faction nerfed the end state of both infantry and tanks. one bren gun and .90 RA is significantly weaker than two bren with .80 RC. Comet is also a significantly weaker beast without its 50 range. I will also likely remove one of the croc churchill's flamethrower as well. Having decent tank and decent infantry is different from having strong infantry and strong tank.
beside, two of the british infantry upgrade are just the standard weapon rack and grenades. The US, wehr, and OKW get similar upgrade on their infantry. It doesn't seems a good idea to replace the vital infantry weapon and grenade upgrade for a vehicle upgrade. One of the main issue plaguing the conscript since release is their lack of weapon upgrade.
The one true unique british infantry upgrade is their squad size, and it's kind of part of their identity. The main reason I nerfed the base infantry and lowered the cost of the squad upgrade is to balance the british infantry around them being 5 men. I wanted to make people buy it early on. |
Decent - that's the thing.
USF mortar should be T0 and weakest. If it was weakest mortar which provides small damage and smoke we wouldn't hade this conversation.
But it's best mortar so here we are.
I say nerf it and we're done.
Still wonder why in preview mortar was fine for everyone and the suddenly Relic turned it into best one
just because it was in the preview doesn't automatically mean that it's fine. No one caught the issue with t34-76 mg buff until it got into a larger testing base.
and giving the usf a crappy mortar seems like it's doing it for its own sake. It feels like an obsession with providing them with a mortar without regarding for design or balance.
I also say that even a crappy mortar will be too much for the early USF. It's giving them extra option and strength at the stage of the game where they already dominate. A crappy mortar doesn't help the USF with their weak late game while buffing their already powerful early game. |