hmm...could be all the maps i have in my library, will solve, thanks bud
Nah I meant I have the same problem. |
I understand there will be bugs etc....but is this really what the map list looks like....
this just me?
No it's not.
What is this mess? |
These arguments feel to me a lot like what was said about the 76 a year ago when no one was using it either.
Statistically the unit is fine. It trades away a chunk of its anti infantry capability for best in class AT and toughness. A pair of E8s is every bit as capable as a Dozer Sherman + Jackson against all but some very niche threats.
It's important to think about opportunity cost when discussing doctrinal units. The Easy8 is good at AT, but it's not better than a Jackson, and the Easy8 is okay at anti-infantry capability, but it can't hold a candle to an HE Sherman. The Easy8 really only functions as an exceptional unit during the Medium phase of the game after you get your first tank, but before you get your second tank where it can function as both a discount Sherman and a discount Jackson until you round out your roster where you're pretty much breaking even with non-doc units.
On top of that, in order to go this doctrine at all, you're trading the current WC-51 and Cav Rifles, or Rangers, Pershing and Cheap Smoke, or Paratroopers and non-teched AT/50Cal or cheap Paratroopers+PackHowie for essentially Rifleman Oourah, Flares, and Sandbags. That trade is not even close to worth it in any of those instances. |
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Easy8 is fine if a bit stuck being a jack of all trades master of none, the majority of the doctrine around it sucks though so there is no justification of ever using Rifle Company in it's current state since other doctrines do what it wants to do better, and the unique things it gives you are underwhelming.
Rifleman field defenses is great (and gets indirectly better with the other mainline sandbags getting nerfed) but if I want RFD I'm going Heavy Cav where I also get a cheaper smoke barrage, elite infantry, and arguably an even better tank.
Flamethrower RE's have the problem that they are mutually exclusive with Sweepers which means you need to build another of the most useless unit in the game to justify getting a flamethrower+Sweeper/Zook which isn't a good look when Urban Assault gives you Riflemen Molotovs which are pretty much objectively better at doing everything the flamethrower can since RE's die when you so much as look at them. (They also give RE's an infinitely better slot item in the Rifle Grenade Launcher so they can actually contribute to fights.) Sweeper and Flamethrower should be allowed together bare minimum. Also Flares are good.
Fire up is okay. It's basically Oourah where you use it to get to cover and not bleed, or snare something, or get on a long range unit/get around an MG to force them off. It's nothing to write home and surely not something you actively want eating up your doctrine space, should just combine this with something else like the assault package since it's so low impact.
White Phos barrage is too expensive for a faction that obliterates their munitions in weapon upgrades and already has things such as Major Barrage that act as a team weapon/building/static deterrent to begin with. The main use for this is smoke with extra utility that's just not worth the cost honestly but assuming other aspects of the doctrine are buffed this could probably be fine as the "just okay" item in the doctrine. |
(Question: Why don't airborne paras have elite zooks?)
I'm pretty sure they do. |
i gone through your post history, and you are abit of allies supporter yourself.
Darn, snuffed me out. Guess the fact I tried to get Grens buffed in this very thread a few days ago gave me away.
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taking reference from brumbar nerf,
do you not think BD shermans are strong with their timings?
kv1 kv8 are too strong?
churchills are too strong now with ukf buffs.
i dont throw out tirade, just pointing what i think make senses.
None of that is relevant to me because they are your opinions. Now, instead of posting on the forum with incomplete information from an Axis viewpoint, I want you to go play some games of either USF/Brit/Sov auto-match and use those units until you start losing. Then I want you to evaluate why you lost and how you can make the same decisions your opponent did against you as Wher/OKW to succeed against these units.
Similarly, if you want to commit to this concept, you can play Allies with an Ace up your sleeve because as an Axis main, you should know exactly (or atleast roughly) what your opponent is doing and how you should counter it as Allies. Especially with their incredibly powerful tools that you claim they have across the board.
If you aren't willing to do that then quite frankly anything you have to say on the matter of balance is irrelevant because you're posting from a position of strong bias and if you have no interest in even trying to form an unbiased opinion it'd be in the best interest of the forum to disregard anything you have to say, if I were a mod in this position I'd likely just invis your posts for not being conductive to balance discussion since all of your arguments are coming from positions of bad faith with intent to buff axis and nerf allies regardless of their respective power levels. |
likewise top 50 players are on a different level, and play selective maps, where they have suss out the logic and exploits and build order.
if you play 2v2 as rank 1000, random maps, and there are many out there, you will look at things differently and offer suggestions you have encountered outside the small elite pool
what are your suggestions so far except putting down others? 
If you think something is too strong as a sub top 200 player, instead of complaining you should switch to that faction, and use the OP thing you think is broken. When you're inevitably countered by better players or find the flaw in whatever strategy you were bothered by, you can now put that new information into your repertoire the next time you play your main and counter what you thought was uncounterable, thus becoming a better player.
If you aren't willing to put in that minimum level of investment of playing the factions you so vehemently demand a nerf for, then you shouldn't be discussing balance or you simply come off as extremely biased to the point of people not taking anything you say seriously because your arguments effectively become "red units OP, blue units UP"
So I would highly recommend you play more Allied factions, and if you do want to contribute to actual discussion you should probably also consult players more knowledgeable than you if you have concerns before you go on a tirade because despite the fact that the >1000 rank and the top 200 have different meta's. The core functionality of the game remains the same and unless you're talking about extreme outliers any functional gameplay elements will remain the same at all skill levels. |
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Top players appear to be pretty in consensus from what I've seen that regular Grens aren't good enough on their own, rather than the replacement options being overpowered. So likely we're going to see a lot of Ass Grens if the current state of the patch was live.
Grens from my understanding have 3 weaknesses at the top level of play (In order of importance) that are answered incredibly well by the trio of units that replace them (Ostruppen, Ass grens, VSL 5 Man Grens)
These are speed of creation. This is fixed by Ostruppen and Ass Grens which put more map presence on the field faster since you're not tied to building Tier 1 but you're also using call in units which don't need to take time to create.
Aggression and control. This is fixed by Ass Grens and VSL since Ass Grens will get in there and force soft and hard retreats due to their high damage up close bleeding manpower and preventing resource gain, while VSL become incredibly powerful mainline infantry able to maintain significant damage on the move allowing them to approach and take ground rather than being forced into static play.
Finally, Survivability and Defense. This is fixed by Ostruppen and VSL Grens. The extra models (and damage of VSL) allow these units to sit in cover and hold positions as needed without being forced away or wiped as easily. This admittedly is the worst argument here because this added "survivability" results in more bleed and thus more manpower expenditure while also being the least significant aspect of Grens being Underpowered. But it's still a factor even if small.
So unless someone up high on the 1's leaderboard with more accurate experience wants to contest my points which given Wehrmacht is my least played faction I'm perfectly happy to concede to them, but There appears to be some fundamental problem with Grens across the board where they aren't necessarily weak as a unit, but they lack important aspects that make them properly function as a mainline that these other replacements bring to the table.
So perhaps some sort of small reworks are due to allow Grens a little better performance in important areas of play while tuning down some less valuable or important usage of the unit. Maybe a build time decrease to provide faster map presence for Grens is required? Maybe some minor changes to moving+ vs static- accuracy is needed to allow Grens to fight from a less stationary position at times?(This could be an awful idea) I'm not sure what would need to be done personally but Grens should probably have some small consideration put into them from a practical perspective rather than a raw numbers perspective given the consistency with which people want to replace them at all costs. |
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Honestly considering they have a ludicrous damage output from effectively all ranges I think they're fine with having the ability of "decimate infantry" compared to all the other stealth units being almost entirely CQC focused.
Also uninformed, but why do Falls have worse stealth than other stealth units? Is there something I'm missing because they get stealth strike abilities and I don't think there's anything that specifically makes their stealth worse is there?
Also White Phos grenade is unique I'd say. The only other OKW unit that gets it as far as I know is Obers. |
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