USF is almost unplayable in top 200 2v2 without pathfinders, but that is because of the current state of maps in that mode. Nearly all the good riflemen maps like Stadtschutt or Lierneux got patched out and replaced with super open lane maps such as Belgorod, Baku or Wolfheze where riflemen get bullied back to base by A-move LMG grens, volks blobs and Obers.
This trend of replacing urban and/or big sightblocker maps with open lane-camp stalefest maps is going on since years and now you all get the ingame results for it......
Riflemen rely purely on many sightblockers since their smoke nade got removed, and if the map doesn't offer it then they are shit tier garbage.
Both Pershing and Calliope are good enough to make USF viable in 2vs2 imo. But yeah USF stock roster has some major problems with winning stale engagements.
I dont think vanilla Rifles are the problem. But it takes ages to get to 2 bar Rifles, while Axis just get their upgrade out of thin air after 4 mins. And i dont think Rifles are viable without fast weapon uprades. On top of that i hate the idea of dropping weapons on Rifles. You pay 150 manpower, 20 fuel and 60 mun per bar to just lose your weapon randomly, cause your squad is full upgraded and can lose weapons even with 1 man left. Just retarded.
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What your saying is a bit strange, every allied elite comes CP2-3 while PG can come earlier especially if your talking team games. Falls are CP2 but are doctrinal like most allied elites. In your last statement you say tanks which means your talking mainly team games if POP is that big of an issue. If your not then fitting in 2 Obers is feasible along with 2 MG and 2 raks which is fairly meta. Only when your talking Panthers is POP that big of a problem.
Ofc you could argue that Pgrens come too early, but my point is that Obers deserve their performance regardless whether Volks are shit or not, just because their timing is much slower than other elite inf.
If you go 2 Obers, 2Raks, 2 Mgs you have either a smaller number of tanks or no indirect at all. GL breaking defenses.
Going to your original post, aside from combat performance, players go for Fussies for their Utility such added sight and Flare which ends up being fairly useful in all modes. I think that is where VG should get a buff, maybe the ability to throw down a cheap AI mine that drops only 1 model similar to the soviet doctrinal one(7 muni I think). This way VG would be able to dictates fight better with out messing with overall balance.
The utility is nice, but nothing crazy. A little bit of vision (42 instead of 35 i think) wont give you that much of an advantage. And the flares are pretty costly with 50 muni. There are more important things like mines and call-in arty. The combatboost is way more important than these gimmick utilities.
I agree in theory about USF, but in practice since they are designed to assault they need to get in close with double bars which causes a unstainable amount of bleed which is fairly well known. The whole Pathfinder/scott meta allows the USF player to bypass this massive weakness while still paying similar to the same in weapon upgrade cost(1 or 2 Bars) along with same tech cost.
Paths scott are just cheese, which require heavy outplaying from your opponent to beat. I dont think it has much to do with how good Rifles are. Just look at Ele+scopes. This tactic gets played all the time in teamgames. And not cause Panther or Stug are shit compared to Ele. No its because this combo is way more difficult to beat than the classic Panther spam. |
What you described is pretty much every elite AI unit so it is not a unique problem. Now I am not sure if you meant Two Ober squads to Vet2. Which is a lot of initial cost/bleed but it is supposed to be. OKW seems to be the only army that can easily fit in several Elite squads with out wipes.
Soviet: most elite players go 3 conscripts 2 guards or 4 conscripts 1 guard. Other elites seem to be out of favor due to MP bleed or lack of utility.
USF: Before Pathfinder spam going for 2 or more Para's was a resource drain due to their target size and late arrival. Rangers were even worse since they due the exact same things rifle due but without snare. So at that point why even make it.
Ost: How often do you see high end players go for 2 PG let alone 1 outside of non-meta strats.
The point is you can't buff one without thinking of the other due to how blobby all WFA are.
Ofc its unique. Every (semi-)elite unit arrives around CP2-3. Only OKW needs its most expensive tech structure to get them (their elite) out. If you dont rush T4 its gonna take some time until you get them out. Therefore the shock value between Lmg Obers and Lmg Paras is vastly different.
Ostheer and Soviets dont even need elites, cause they have the best mainline inf in the mid and lategame. In theory USF doesnt really needs elites too, cause their mainline scales good enough to be useful lategame. But their weapon tech/upgrade is a little bit too costly.
Compared to Ost/Sov Okw has way bigger popcap problems. I dont understand how you can think that OKW has an easy time getting 2 Obers on top of 3/4 mainline squads and support weapons with their heavy popcap tanks. |
OKW players get Obers which beats everything so any buffs to Volks would ruin the balance. I can imagine Volks performing better against barred Rifles or 7 man cons. Volks fight and then there is less left to stop or hold the Obers.
OKW had 46% winrate top 200 1vs1 last month and 44% this month.(Imo in teamgames infantry power is less important) Do you really think giving volks better vet5 veterancy will bring them to 60%? In 4vs4 many players already go Fussies cause Volks are nothing more than mp bleed later on.
There are units who can hold off Obers (Paras long range, Shocks, etc), but its a 4men T4 unit. It takes ages until you get atleast 2 Obers vet 2. Just use your tanks or arty. Have you ever played with Scotts against Obers? Thats just free manpower bleed. |
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Alright. After 75 years we can finally stop debating on this matter. This 31 minute long youtube video is all we need to know. Thanks for sharing. He fucking owned these Wheraboos.
/s
Can someone close this thread, please? This has neither something to do with the game, nor is it good researched. |
The sherman doesn't satisfy a role against axis meta, right now. Not in teams at least. Most axis players are leaning on their infantry superiority and back it up with dual at guns. An effective scott is just a way better option based on the way people are playing right now.
The sherman is just shit. I see every other stock medium tank expect the sherman. The unit has nothing to offer. Low armor, low dmg (either vs inf or vs tanks), no utility, no fast timing. Nothing at all. The bulldozer upgrade has to be stock to make this unit useful. |
+1
It's always easier to cry and blame balance instead of going back to the drawing board and adapt. In 2v2 and 3v3 there is nothing to blame but yourself for playing the wrong strat
I've gone against this strat multiple times already and as OKW your best counter is to play as aggressive as possible with smoke. Either leig smoke or plane smoke.
As wehr you can literally go for the old Elefant meta with double pak40 support. (Panther spam with JU87 loiter on maps where ele sucks)
Another argument I hear all the time is that it's "unfun to go against".
Guess what, going against the most sweaty-ass axis builds is the same, or someone thinks it's fun to go against G43 fusi blob with force retreat Offizier, p4 and JT?
Or a-move gren blob with spotting scope brummbar, double pak40 and elefant.
Guess the difference with these last two axis cancer builds is that you're considered a god, but as USF you're a cancer player 
+1 Nerf the shit out of Elefant, Jagdtiger, scopes and Scott and im happy.  |
It is the logical thing to do and makes sense when balancing a game. It is one of many aspects of balance to look at. Dota 2, League of Legends and even Rainbow Six Siege all use numerical data as an indication of balance across all skills levels. These are all E-Sport titles which means balance is an utmost priority. COH 2 attempted to be an E-Sport but failed miserably because most of the player base feels the game is poorly balanced. Rightfully so when you and your team are responsible for creating non-stop game breaking issues such as SturmTiger, Fallshirmjaegers, JLI and a whole list of other things over the years. How do you expect new players to stick to the game when there is constant issues and they feel the game is essentially broken? Despite your well intentioned efforts, I stand by my opinion that the Balance Team has made the game worse over time since they started.
Dota2 and LOL are better balanced than COH2? LMAO, nice joke man. Have you watched TI? You think Elder Titan is fine with 60% winrate? You think Magnus is fine with over 60% winrate? And there are even bans to get the most broken things out of the window in theory. These games are not more popular cause they are better balanced, they are more popular cause they are just better designed games with better mechanics, better matchmaking, better settings, etc. End of story. And there is no way to balance a game fair for everyone and everything. There will always be underpowered and overpowered stuff. Games would be pretty dull otherwise.
Sure the balance team did some questionable stuff, but in the end of the day they made the game not worse than what we had when relic left. And balance doesnt matter for 95% of players anyway. Instead of crying that USF is dark souls, maybe you should start to improve yourself. I guarantee you that will improve your rating more than making USF better . |
its the brit bonus. didn ut reailze it yet? most things brits got is a better / superior version from other factions.
Start with teching (no building with pio etc)
IS is a better rifles these days,
best lv in game
very early AEC to counter most stuff easily which has armor execpt mediums/puma (even there very usefully) in this time
best turle mechanics in game
got units which other faction only with doc
powerfull offmaps and arty options
etc etc
even a Sturmtiger equivalent was given to them
cmon dude, brits have no bonus, they probably have the least amount of questionable (imba) units/mechanics atm.
Puma, t70 and 222 are all more effective than the Aec, having no snare makes sections worse than rifle
About Sturmtiger: Let this unit be underwhelming. Retarded unit with dumb design |
Also idea of giving 5 vet volks to pGren stg's.
The Stg upgrade on Volks is (balance wise) completely fine. You pay 60 muni for good close and medium range dmg increase and therefore a nice powerspike.
Whats bad about Volks is their awful "target size" with 0,77 at max vet, which translates into 520 effective HP. Compare this to Rifles 625, Cons 676 (pre upgrade) or Penals 623. On top of that they only get x1,3 accuracy with vet while having no option to get powerful lategame weaponery like dual bars or dual brens to compensate for this. But i think the bleeding part is way worse than having supbar dmg. At the end of the day Cons get 5,38 hp per manpower (reinforce), Rifle 4,46 and Penals/Volks 4,16.
I dont think it would harm balance much if Volks get a little boost on lvl 5, healing on 4 and remove the useless vision shit. But i guess there is no room for that after 3 years of putting Grens and Cons into the prime position they are now . |
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