Pretty simple solution that would help increase variety in Brit gameplay. +1 from me. |
It's a 1 shot vet 1 ability, not a buff the to default fire. The m10 costs the same amount of fuel and can fire HVAP for 30 seconds, doesn't seem like a tall order
Per comments above, the Stug penetration bonus would last for up to 4 shots, which is plenty.
M10 is doctrinal costs 80FU which is dirt cheap, but it can bounce shots on vet 0 OST P4 and it fights targets that commonly run about 230+ armour. It's more of a cheap unreliable tank destroyer that also takes a commander slot. It's decent for its cost as medium repellent and good for suicidal attacks on enemy rocket arty.
In other words allies can pick a cheap doctrinal TD that can fight axis stock vehicles, while Wehr would like to build stock cheap TD that can fight allied doctrinal heavies. |
Yeah I don't understand it either. JP4 counters every single non-doctrinal Allied vehicle with high efficiency. JP4 is criminally underrated on this forum.
+1 |
Giving it some thought, yeah 100% it's high, but that's what it currently is but only for 1 shot.
50% sounds reasonable (it should be around AP Jackson minus the damage), it depends on how many times the Stug should be able to fire. My point is, that people tend to overlook the penetration buff, cause it's forces a reload first to do a small impact disable.
Giving it +5s for a total of 15s, you could get around 2 shots with ample margin. At vet2 (if vet is swapped), you would be shooting 4 times.
You guys realize that Stug is 280MP and 90FU? Why are you trying to make it pen vehicles like Pershing, Comet, Churchill, KV family and IS2 reliably? It's cheaper than T34/76 that is the only stock medium in SOV lineup. If you want high pen you can always build a Panther. |
I don't see what the T-34/76 has to do with the OKW teching structure.
I don't see why OKW needs a stock Stug (as suggested earlier) when other factions can't play competitively unless they pick a doctrine to fill the power gaps in the lineup. T34 was just an example. |
Or even after panzer auth. It would already be quite something for OKW to have an efficient 90 fuel tank destroyer in their usual tech tree.
OKW already has all the stock tools in the game (except for sniper), OKW also has Puma for cheap AT, it doesn't need Stug. I can't believe people are considering improving timing of strong vehicles of what seems to be the strongest faction in the game, or that they consider giving it even larger variety of stock tools. Meanwhile stock T34/76 (the best stock SOV tank) trembles against anything larger than P2 and its best use is to ram shit to maybe kill an enemy tank with an offmap ability. WTF |
The only point that I see in this change would be to give pre-authorisation (aka the Schwehr HQ split) more meaning, while this would substantially buff the timing of OKW vehicles. Every vehicle listed above is strong unit, either in AI or AT department. OKW doesn't need more buffs. Last thing we need is 10m OKW Ostwind or Flammpanzer. OKW should actually take some effort to win with, just like with the other factions. |
That's the thing though. A Panther can take on anything, and a Panzer IV can fall back to anti-infantry duty if it's got no mediums to club.
The Jagdpanzer IV is rarely the best pick. If you had the option to convert it to a lower RoF, higher pen gun, it'd be a safer pick.
I could say that building SU-85 in 2v2 preemptively assuming my enemy is going to build a PIV, PV, Brummbar or a Tiger is the same risk as for an OKW player to build a JPIV. If I build a T34/76 instead, I won't be able to deal with the armoured threat. The only SOV non-doc answer (that isn't a ZIS gun) to enemy armour is SU-85 and there are some horrible maps for 60 range casemate TDs like the ruins in Eindhoven (2v2). OKW does not need anyone feeling bad for them as they get all the tools in the game except for a sniper (though JLI come close). Having a good 60 range TD like a JP allows OKW to fend off enemy TDs and mediums. I think it fights TDs and mediums better than PIV and fights TDs better than Panther. Panther on the other hand fights heavy armour and infantry better than JP. Meanwhile PIV can fight mediums and bullies infantry. Each of these vehicles is better at something than the other one.
One second per shot.
That's an extra three seconds to kill a medium tank (as it doesn't reload the first shot).
In a game this fast, that's a big deal.
4.3 seconds to reload is about the same as the SU-85 or Jackson.
But with higher accuracy, higher penetration, lower cost (than Jackson), higher armour, higher health pool, etc. This change would affect teamgames significantly more than 1v1s. I think JPIV is in a good spot and should not be touched because balance is a fragile thing.
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JPIV has 60 range, very high ROF, vet2 with extra 160HP, really good armour for a TD and stock KT to hide behind. I think it's a very strong unit and doesn't require any buffs. It's not even that expensive. When you want high pen you go Panther. Also HEAT rounds are available doctrinally, so anyone can make a decision to get them if they think they need the extra pen/damage.
Having stock pen increase of such high values is going to improve JPIV exp gain on heavies and the 30% extra reload is just going to decrease the ROF by ~1s when vetted. This is going to hard counter any allied heavies. I think it's a bad idea. If we were to believe the stats from coh2db, vetted upgraded JPIV would have 280 max range pen, a bit faster ROF and ~50% more accuracy than vet3 Jackson for a lower price. That combined with 230 armour and 800 HP would be crazy strong. |
KT, IS2, kv2 etc, these tanks are slow too, should they have 180 rear armour too?
And regarding the 2nd highlight, its role is not to die? so its supposed to be indestructible according to who? the balance team? and finally, it does do damage, it does INCREDIBLE damage to infantry and support weps, et guns etc, while being average agaisnt tanks and is able to soak up insane damage from the front.
point is, It doesn't need high armour on its rear to be able to exel at its current role. Do you srsly think the croc will be useless or ineffective without high rear armour? answer this question
KT, IS2, KV2 have a significantly more potent gun and don't have to go through the 50% gamble if they can even pen vetted PIV. Basically every medium tank in the game has better AI than churchill. Was churchill's AI so good, it wouldn't have to get on top of an AT gun to throw a nade at it. |