Unauthorized Tanks

I'm forking this off from the other thread because it's a very different proposal.

In the last patch cycle, the Balance Team floated the idea of putting the Jagdpanzer IV, Flame Hetzer and Ostwind in the SPHQ at the same timing as Obersoldaten: before the Panzer Authorisation upgrade. This didn't happen in the live release, making the SPHQ split pretty much just a timing buff for Obersoldaten.

When the split was initially proposed several months ago, the split was intended to be JPIV and Obers before, then P4s and P5s after the upgrade.



This is an undeniable buff to the OKW faction, but it has a number of internal benefits to the teching structure:

• The JPIV's role is further distinguished from the Panther by having a different timing window.
  
• The Battlegroup build becomes more viable as it gets an AT vehicle 60 FU earlier.
  
• If OKW loses the SPHQ, rebuilding half of it and calling in Jagdpanzers is a viable option. Currently the most cost effective option is stalling for the KT.

I also think the Flame Hetzer being pre-Authorisation would be a neat buff to the off-meta Feuersturm doctrine, and its lack of any AT capability means it can be countered with light vehicles available in its timing window.

The Ostwind, in my view, should stay requiring Panzer Authorisation because of its ability to kill AT lights.

I'm forking this off from the other thread because it's a very different proposal.

In the last patch cycle, it was suggested to put to the Jagdpanzer IV, Flame Hetzer and Ostwind in the SPHQ at the same timing as Obersoldaten: before the Panzer Authorisation upgrade.

When the split was initially proposed several months ago, the split was intended to be JPIV and Obers before, then P4s and P5s after the upgrade.

You have any info on that?
Because if it wasn't being tested, then its not true(genuinely don't remember, we have other people who spent all their time reading patch notes over, who are more then happy to rush in with copy paste from the notes for me to care at this point).

This is an undeniable buff to the OKW faction, but it has a number of internal benefits to the teching structure:

• The JPIV's role is further distinguished from the Panther by having a different timing window.
  
• The Battlegroup build becomes more viable as it gets an AT vehicle 60 FU earlier.
  
• If OKW loses the SPHQ, rebuilding half of it and calling in Jagdpanzers is a viable option. Currently the most cost effective option is stalling for the KT.

To know if its a good idea, compare the costs to costs of getting same archetype vehicle of other factions.

1) JP4 role is already very distinguished from panther, because JP4 has much easier job picking of meds and countering TDs then panther does while having much better scaling overall.
2) That might result in rushes shutting med tank play before anyone else can get a med out.
3) Risk vs reward, it was discussed to death, you are afraid of losing schwerer, don't put it outside of your base sector.

I also think the Flame Hetzer being pre-Authorisation would be a neat buff to the underused Feuersturm doctrine, and its lack of any AT capability means it can be countered with light vehicles available in its timing window.

Puppchens were removed from the game?
You're trading ability to stomp allied armor for ability to stomp allied infantry. Up to you to decide which is more valuable for you, because flame hetzer frankly lacks absolutely nothing and is utterly devastating when protected from tanks.

I recall mention of giving it a go if the current system wasn't tuned well enough for those units. I'm on board except for the Ostwind since the buffed version is a monster.

the JP4 coming before panzer authorization would be horrible...

also OKW does not need anymore buffs... both WFA factions (USA/OKW) need nerfs in order to put them in line with EFA factions...

the JP4 coming before panzer authorization would be horrible...

also OKW does not need anymore buffs... both WFA factions (USA/OKW) need nerfs in order to put them in line with EFA factions...

Why? There is another thread going on RN talking about how it's not spectacular. Delaying p4s and panthers and ober lmgs for a TD means you really need it and doesn't make sense unless you do. It's a no AI weapon so it's not like it's exploitable to get it before flak upgrade if you can.

it would be odd to see such a powerful unit quite early though... arguably it would come even earlier than the T-34 with these changes... which is a bit BS considering how strong OKW is...

imo the idea of giving it switchable shells or an upgrade to increase penetration in exchange for DPS is the better idea...





as for OKW in general the faction needs a nerf along with USF... the WFA powercreep is dumb and the winrates reflect this...

Ostwind ans Hezter should not be built from T4 at all. They should be call-in or built from HQ.

They could have tech or CP requirement but they should require the T4 structure.

That would make them more attractive and increase diversity in builds.

it would be odd to see such a powerful unit quite early though... arguably it would come even earlier than the T-34 with these changes... which is a bit BS considering how strong OKW is...

imo the idea of giving it switchable shells or an upgrade to increase penetration in exchange for DPS is the better idea...





as for OKW in general the faction needs a nerf along with USF... the WFA powercreep is dumb and the winrates reflect this...

It would be weird to see it earlier than a t34 but you wouldn't. There would be no reason NOT to get the flak upgrade and unlock better armour if you reasonably can so you would only get the JP4 if you are already really on the back foot and need whatever AT you can get.

it still seems like a ridiculous idea imo... though the JP4 itself does need help changing its timing doesnt seem like the way to go imo...

as for the other ideas id give it a big fat no... OKW like USF needs nerfs....

The only point that I see in this change would be to give pre-authorisation (aka the Schwehr HQ split) more meaning, while this would substantially buff the timing of OKW vehicles. Every vehicle listed above is strong unit, either in AI or AT department. OKW doesn't need more buffs. Last thing we need is 10m OKW Ostwind or Flammpanzer. OKW should actually take some effort to win with, just like with the other factions.

The only point that I see in this change would be to give pre-authorisation (aka the Schwehr HQ split) more meaning, while this would substantially buff the timing of OKW vehicles. Every vehicle listed above is strong unit, either in AI or AT department. OKW doesn't need more buffs. Last thing we need is 10m OKW Ostwind or Flammpanzer. OKW should actually take some effort to win with, just like with the other factions.

Its like you completely forgot the highly impactful 10mp increase for volks. My 4 volks squad comes 10(!!!!!)seconds later so some hefty buffs are in order tbh so we can overcome that

Could make schwerer + authorization 90/30 instead of 60/60 and put only JP4, P4 and Panther behind it.

Just an idea (would also nerf Falls hahahahaha).

I'll be honest I don't understand why any of these tanks should come earlier. Earlier jp4 would just turn it into a panic at option that comes waaaay earlier than it needs to be. Like the volks shreck era jp4. Jp4s counter allied mediums, and can slug it out with allied td. Ostwinds and flame hetzers are brutally effective against infantry, and are cheap. All these tanks are strong cheap and cost effective. why do they need to come even earlier.

I think the Ostwind from Scavenge doctrine should get the Valentine treatment. Called in at 6CP, but only one can be on the field.

I think the Ostwind from Scavenge doctrine should get the Valentine treatment. Called in at 6CP, but only one can be on the field.

Medium vehicle at time when only lights roam screams overpowered.
Especially if its such a powerful unit.

Poll ATM:

JPIV, perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

You have any info on that?
Because if it wasn't being tested, then its not true(genuinely don't remember, we have other people who spent all their time reading patch notes over, who are more then happy to rush in with copy paste from the notes for me to care at this point).

Hes saying that because I talked about it before. So yes, for whatever it matters, its true. The team discussed having that functionality, and even before that members of the team have supported it on the forums.

A Jagdpanzer seems a bit strong to get earlier on. I would say to add a StuG III to pre-Panzer Authorization. Not only is it a lesser unit, but the OKW Announcer has voice over support for it: "StuG Drei panzer ready for action!" and "Stug tank ready for battle!"

Hes saying that because I talked about it before. So yes, for whatever it matters, its true. The team discussed having that functionality, and even before that members of the team have supported it on the forums.

So it was taken into account, but never landed on preview, got it, ty for clarification.

A Jagdpanzer seems a bit strong to get earlier on. I would say to add a StuG III to pre-Panzer Authorization. Not only is it a lesser unit, but the OKW Announcer has voice over support for it: "StuG Drei panzer ready for action!" and "Stug tank ready for battle!"

Or even after panzer auth. It would already be quite something for OKW to have an efficient 90 fuel tank destroyer in their usual tech tree.