yeah requires 30 muni more but you get brens way faster than falshims can get their lmgs
and you can't afford more than 1-2 falshims as well as commandos until very late gamee, if opponent is equally skilled
well i am talking from 1v1 point of view, maybe in 4v4 it's another story
Commandos cost much more MU and MP than Falls so it's obvious it shouldnt even be a contest between those 2 squads, Commandos arent the issue here. The issue is that Falls beat LMG paratroopers at their prefered range which is retarded, same as shredding rangers which cost more and forced into close range to deal damage while having none of the utility of Falls. |
don't worry u also forgot okw has that cost in the tech 
Because calling Glider is comparable to teching? Also this entire thread is retarded, Commandos with brens should shred Falls at any ranges as they come later and require much higher investment than Falls to reach same power levels and scale worse with vet and you can't spam 3-4 squads of them casually like people do with Falls.
Anyway a squad that can win against dedicated long range units such as paras and guards and at the same time win against elite CQC units like rangers while having bundle, WP, stealth, ambush, faust and paradrop is the ultimate joke, one can argue that this time balance team went farther than JLI |
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It's so good because originally you had to choose between it or AT gun.
Funny how 50 cal ended up being exact thing maxim is supposed to be - assault HMG with insta setup and teardown |
I mean you went the entire ostwind thread ignoring arguments and evidence so what else is new?
You keep saying "only if you ambush". So ambush!!!! It comes with the fucking upgrade, it's not that difficult to do...
Meanwhile you can see ptrs panels a mile away, and the snare has shorter range...
Penal snare is actually easier to pull off, unlike grenades it will always go off once you start animation. Also you're not ambushing anything of value once enemy sees you have PTRS cons, it does not take 200 IQ to send infantry ahead of tanks especially since PTRS cons cant do anything to infantry and you're giving up on shocks and guards by selecting this doctrine.
Anyway I'm done with you, you can pretend it's good doctrine all you want I think everyone who played it would rate it as meme or gimmick at best and the fact thats it's one of the least seen doctrines in the entire game speaks louder than theorycrafting |
Lol it's not theories buddy, you just have to stop playing 4v4. It actually works in the game modes that are actually balanced...
Satchel damage is 240 btw, so no, it does not do more damage than AT assault in "any situation". Again, that's not true
Idk why you come to the balance section and talk about 4v4. 4v4 Gameplay doesn't even closely resemble that from 1s and 2s, where balance is actually possible...
Satchel can be thrown even with a single model to deal full damage, you'll guaranteed that 240 damage compared AT grenades that harder to pull off and depend on number of model in one of the most frail squads in game, you'll be getting more damage from grenade assault only during ambush or forum theorycrafting
So far I have not seen a single argument from you on why this doctrine isnt dogshit aside of "lul 4v4" despite the fact that 4v4 is the place for meme tactics and doctrines. And I didnt see this doctrine in month even in that casual mode.
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Not true. A single mainline with a faust will not stop a t34. You need to hit it with something else first, just like any medium tank.... Forgetting the 75% threshold for engine damage?
Only hard to use on big maps if the target is directly in the middle. Even then, the bombing run covers a huge area...
Again not true at all. 1 squad by itself does 120 dmg with penetration, and they reload much faster than zooks or shrecks
Good thing the upgrade comes with camo....
Good thing you get to keep hoorah.... And if you're any good at ambushing you don't need it anyway. Just use hold fire to give the proper surprise
Even if it's only 4 models it will still do same damage as satchel (240) without the risk of hurting your own squad. And it has more range, and you have camo, and the squad is cheaper to build/reinforce.
Actually that says a whole lot of nothing. You know what else is rare in 4v4? Skill. Like i said I use it in 2v2s all the time
What 120 damage you're talking about? You know PTRS Pen stats? You realize grenades also dont always pen for full damage, you realize even with oorah you cant just sprint and grenade assault because reservsing vehicle will cancel grenade windup animation? Furthermore grenade full damage is 50 and 40 with deflection, its always worse than satchel in every situation
A single shot from anything and faust makes ram useless and you'll never reach those elefants/JT's if enemy player does not misplay badly, especially if he spots PTRS knows and knows you're doctrine pick
All I'm seeing a person who probably never played doctrine much and just theorycrafts scenarios that improbable to pull of in actual game. |
This is all completely wrong, and screams that you've never really tried the Commander. I use it regularly in 2v2s
Su85 is already bad against super heavy TDs, why would you be using it against them? Ram with a t34, call in il2 AT strike, and that thing is screwed. I've killed 2 elefants in one game before just like that
Ptrs cons are amazing. The fact that you think their terrible is truly remarkable. You get 3 ptrs, so it's 120 dmg if all 3 penetrate. The snare is the real power though, 360 damage and a dead engine.
If you keep some tank hunter conscripts near the su85, that panther is screwed if it tries to rush you. Camo the cons near the su85, put on hold fire, and ambush. Ptrs cons are very very very good
Ram+PTAB does not work on large maps genius and can be prevented by just single mainline squad with faust
PTRS cons are garbage because PTRS are useless unless you have 4+ squad blob but even then you will do no alpha damage and anything above 180 armor will escape. Grenade assault is too clunky and will never work unless vehicle was either ambushed or already snared, heck even snared vehicles will escape it without sprint and lower model count decreases damage way below that of satchel
Honestly that entire commander is joke at tank hunting compared to ISU+Mark+Guard or Guard+Mark+34-85
This commander is rarer in 4v4 than Partysan doctrine, thats say a lot about it's viablity even as a meme |
All the community balance teams have flip-flopped on Tank Hunter's howitzer.
The B4 is more thematically appropriate.
The ML-20 is actually good.
Which wins out?
ML-20 is not good at all since uncounterable flares and doctrines like recon+elefant+dive bomb exist.
Whats even worse ML-20 is much more noticeable than B4, which usually gets spotted only after blob or repairing P4 suddenly blows up. |
This is simply untrue. Go to the changelog and specifically find me the changes you're talking about
The bombing runs damage is still good AND it stuns tanks
I'm willing to bet you've tried the Commander like 2 times... Most of this is wrong
He gets camo for all tanks/AT guns, which provides ambush bonus and a great bombing run. "Nothing good against tanks?"
Tank hunter conscripts are amazing. Pointing out the AI damage of a dedicated AT squad is in interesting argument... They get camo, 3 ptrs, the best snare in the game, and vehicle detection. If you think it sucks you haven't really tried it or you're just really bad
Played this commander countless times, I know what I'm talking about. vehicle camo is stupid gimmick fitting mostly for stealth recon for T-70. It's useless for actual tank destroyers because it renders them stationary and reduces rotation to extreme degree. Useless against both panthers and superheavy TD's
And PTRS conscripts being dedicated AT squad is sick joke, those PTRS are useless against tanks ever since their deflection damaged was nerfed several times over.
This commander is partysan tier at best. |
No, im saying I don't know if its a good idea. The commander is already pretty good
I literally went out of my way not to say yes or no. Its a big change and suggesting the commander needs the b4 to be good is flat out wrong. Its already a pretty good commander
The il2 bombing run combined with t34 ram is devastating against heavies
In what alternative universe this commander is considered good? PTRS conscripts are garbage, their anti-infantry DPS equals to CE with minesweeper and they cant do anything against tanks with PTRS, their grenades are laughably hard to land outside of ambush compared to even 10 range AT satchel.
PTRS upgrade is supposed to be the point of this doctrine but it's absolute dogshit compared to just getting Guards or upgrading single Penal squad who can do same without wasting popcap.
For a tank hunting doctrine this commander does not offer T-34-85 or mark target or ISU or anything thats actually useful against TANKS. And if you need something to deal with cars there are better ways to do it than wasting doctrine while playing most doctrine-reliant faction.
Honestly it's probably THE worst commander in game, with only PTAB being useful ability. At very least B4 can provide memes before it's inevitably gets flared and dive bombed. |
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