Profile of gbem

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Thread: Jagdpanzer IV Refit17 Oct 2019, 14:06 PM Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 13:43 PMVipper "Higher quality advantage" in your opinion. Point is that JP only slightly better vs meduim and far worse vs heavies. yeah but an outright penetration buff isnt the way to go... Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 13:43 PMVipper Asymmetric balance is completely irrelevant. M-36 has around half the armor of Panther yet is more cost efficient heavy counter. JP4 cost more for frontal armor a value that hardly help it in anything since it out-ranges mediums, can not deflect TDs, and can be flanked easier than SU-85. no but it shoots faster than the SU-85 and has lower target sizes... its advantages cannot be ignored... Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 13:43 PMVipper Good for you, I did not objected the change I have simply objected the price of 500/175 for it. the OP didnt mention 500/175 price for the JP4 afaik... Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 13:43 PMVipper Once more do not put words in my mouth I have not suggested that it should get a penetration buff. What I have said is that unit need a role and then it cost pop and stat should be according to that role. Currently the unit is simply not cost efficient as counter to mediums and Tds. And it seems that actually agree with my assessment. you did "If it a counter to enemy heavies/super heavies it need more penetration" Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 13:43 PMVipper And that has been my point all along. Find a role and make cost efficient at it. it doesnt have to be cost efficient at a role... since making it cheaper would break the dynamic between allied TDs and axis premium mediums and mediums... instead you can just give it switchable rounds to allow it to engage heavy tanks better to widen its utility without making it the "panther" of heavy tank destroyers In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Jagdpanzer IV Refit17 Oct 2019, 13:30 PM then the suggestion of switchable round types/heavyAP round upgrade fits your objectives @vipper In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Wehr weak penetration17 Oct 2019, 13:14 PM the panther doesnt need any tweaks imo... the balance between allied mediums and TDs and axis mediums and TDs are far more balanced than it was before... the only vehicles id take a look at are the StuG (its veterancy may need tweaks since TWP kinda sucks) the T-34 (ram sucks) and the JP4 (lago`s discussion covers this) In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Jagdpanzer IV Refit17 Oct 2019, 12:53 PM Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 12:32 PMVipper Ok lets compare the JP 4 and SU-85 at vet 0 JP vs SU-84 So basically you are paying 50 mp and 5 fuel more for a unit that inferior to everything accept: +11% mid accuracy -12% faster reload +64% frontal armor +14% rear armor 5.6% target size In other words one pays more than the price for a heavy counter for medium slightly better medium counter. youre leaving out the pros of the SU-85 and forgetting to draw a comparison JP4 +11% mid accuracy -12% faster reload +64% frontal armor +14% rear armor 5.6% target size SU-85 20.7% more (average) penetration 3.6% higher speed 10.52% higher acceleration 10% higher rotation rate 3.8% lower fuel cost 14.28% lower manpower cost overall the JP4 has higher quality advantages while the SU-85 has more advantages... id say theyre roughly comparable of course the main problem of the JP4 is its niche role as anti medium and a TD frightener... hence why i am in support of the new "high penetration low DPS" round type... Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 12:32 PMVipper Pls stop coming up with BS theories as another user does. There is no correlation between a units armor and Penetration. its called assymetric balance... you cant have your cake and eat it too Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 12:32 PMVipper Only it is not a heavy TD because it lack penetration. It is quite relevant because the main thing this unit has is frontal armor that over only the half front of the vehicle. Combined with low rotation and no side vision the unit can easily be flanked and lose the only advantage it actually has. hence why im fine with switchable round types? this would at least retain its role as anti medium with an option to switch to anti heavy round types in exchange for lower DPS vs mediums an outright penetration buff would simply be over the top and make the JP4 outclass all the heavy TDs just because its axis... Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 12:32 PMVipper Yes it is I have provided the stat to prove that most TDs including SU-85 become better at their job at vet 3. The first strike bonus has extremely low impact, it is only probably in 4vs4 and even it has light impact since it does not change the number of shot in most cases. Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 12:32 PMVipper Not at price of 500/175 correct me if im wrong... but wasnt the suggestion to add a 60 munitions upgrade for higher pen/lower DPS? Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 12:32 PMVipper It already act as a counter to allied TDs but not cost efficiently since dedicated counter are usually cheaper and with less pop. There reason it does is bacsause OKW do not have a 60 range ATG. its not meant to hard counter allied TDs.... its meant to scare them away... Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 12:32 PMVipper It already act as a counter to allied meduims but not cost efficiently since dedicated counter are usually cheaper and with less pop. it counters medium armor quite effectively... but it isnt the best at its job... hence why i wish to expand its capacity to counter heavy armor aswell with "high penetration low DPS" modes... whether a switchable round or free (permanent) upgrade is up for debate In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Unauthorized Tanks17 Oct 2019, 12:28 PM it would be odd to see such a powerful unit quite early though... arguably it would come even earlier than the T-34 with these changes... which is a bit BS considering how strong OKW is... imo the idea of giving it switchable shells or an upgrade to increase penetration in exchange for DPS is the better idea... as for OKW in general the faction needs a nerf along with USF... the WFA powercreep is dumb and the winrates reflect this... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Jagdpanzer IV Refit17 Oct 2019, 12:25 PM Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 11:54 AMStug life no it doesn't are blind he literally posted the stats su 85 cost less it costs 5 less fuel... Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 11:54 AMStug life and has better rotation, both the SU-85 and jagdpanzer 4 have trash rotation rates though the SU-85 has better rotation rates... Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 11:54 AMStug life vet 5 is trash when other tanks get same bonus but for all shoots not only the first the SU-85s main vet bonus is penetration... the JP4 gets camo + first strike... both are pretty good Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 11:54 AMStug life so do u agree with OP or not ? i agree that the jagdpanzer 4 deserves a buff... its too much of a niche unit to be good sadly.... but the way vipper portrays it is that it is somehow some weak unit in need of alot of help.... it doesnt... but does deserve some sort help... imo the JP4 should have an option to at least increase its penetration in exchange for DPS to allow it to engage heavy tanks more effectively... thus preventing it from being a niche unit for killing medium swarms and scaring TDs... imo i would have gone for the free upgrade with +80 or so penetration and -20% DPS... but switchable shell types are also a good idea aswell In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Unauthorized Tanks17 Oct 2019, 11:18 AM the JP4 coming before panzer authorization would be horrible... also OKW does not need anymore buffs... both WFA factions (USA/OKW) need nerfs in order to put them in line with EFA factions... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Jagdpanzer IV Refit17 Oct 2019, 11:08 AM Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 16:27 PMVipper JP4 has a number of issues: High price High pop Low rotation speed so does the SU-85 Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 16:27 PMVipper Low penetration because it has high armor Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 16:27 PMVipper high frontal armor low rear its rear armor is the same as every other heavy TD... this is mostly irrelevant aswell Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 16:27 PMVipper problematic vet bonuses it gets cloaking and first strike as a vet bonus... that isnt "problematic" Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 16:27 PMVipper One first has to decide what the role of this unit is: If it a counter to mediums it need lower cost and pop If it is a counter to enemy 60 Tds it needs lower cost pop If it a counter to enemy heavies/super heavies it need more penetration In any way it need a veterancy overhaul. the OP`s suggestion is quite good enough to give it the 3rd role... the 2nd role is bad since the allies would have to contend with the panther AND the JP4 the 1st role it already fills quite nicely.... but is also quite a niche... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Jagdpanzer IV Refit17 Oct 2019, 11:05 AM Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 06:10 AMmrgame2 I say the disparity in pen is more than accuracy. I mean 0.072 is pretty damn high already. Higher than panthers. Sure allies needed pen, sure axis dont need that much pen..but these are old conventions imo. As started in my other thread, about allies do have armor values which are also high... Higher than what's expected with doctrine counters. what? the highest armor values of allied tanks belong to the russian heavy tanks.... axis superheavies like the JT/ELE/KT get even higher armor than the IS-2/ISU... Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 06:10 AMmrgame2 Thats the thing, allies seem to have access to stronger late game. And we are talking about jp4 okw, which are both superior to wehr arsenal's! youre completely full of crap arent you mrgame2? In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Wehr weak penetration17 Oct 2019, 10:58 AM Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 07:13 AMSerrith I dont really see the OPs point. The pak 40 is tied for the best penetration on a non doc at gun. The stug sits at a perfect middle ground penetration wise between the cheaper su76 or m10 and the more expensive su85 and Jacksons. I dont see how you can criticize the Panthers excellent penetration. The panzer 4 is the only unit in ostheer roster that has penetration that is SLIGHTLY below average for cost, but it exchanges it for armor. thats because the OP is in denial on how horrible of a player he is... this is a guy that loses panthers to AECs.... this is also the guy that made this joke of a comment Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 14:45 PMmrgame2 I cite another example that a Cromwell can hit Elefant with more pain than a P4 can hit a Croc. Jump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 07:13 AMSerrith The panther has fine mobility but it really isnt this speed demon you are making it out to be. Stock its slower than comet valentine cromwell and m10, and its speed and acceleration only marginally exceed that of most other allied mediums. With vet most(non heavy) allied tanks end up substantially faster than the panther including the su85(!), with exception of the su76, the jackson, the firefly and the centaur. though it isnt the fastest tank ingame it is definitely up there as one of the fastest non light tanks ingame... the panther is simply a tank with 1. the penetration of an allied heavy tank destroyer 2. the HP pool of a heavy 3. the speed of a medium to deny all of the panther`s advantages and ask for EVEN MORE buffs is just further evidence of a l2p issue In: COH2 Balance