They may not be used much in 1v1, but Panzerfusiliers are used as an alternative to (some) Volksgrenadiers
I know that, but that makes Panzerfusiliers a sidegrade of JLI with snares. Using Panzerfusiliers as your actual mainline means shooting yourself on the foot
Then it's easy, just a single match any mode, no volksgrenadiers
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Many of those upgrades are doctrinal or locked behind tech |
Perhaps you should ask Stormjeager on advise on how to use them, it seems like a-moving blob isn't working out for you in this instance.
Sure, in the meantime (since I'm phoneposting from work) can you provide a single 2vs2 tournament showing OKW with effective use of G43 panzerfusiliers starting from a paznerfusilier opening? |
What if I told you that unit does not need to be top 1v1 tournament meta to be good and balanced?
I mean, how many overpowered hotizers have you seen in 1v1?
How many ISU or JTs?
How many AGs?
List goes on.
In 2v2 PFs are very common sight.
Pure whataboutism. Heavy TD aren't seen because 1vs1 has large maps for a sitting duck 1 dingle player need to babysit and build a support artmy around, all for an AT """"mostly"""" only unit. It's for the same reason that Heavies aren't common either (to a lessr degree). Howitzers are naturally favoured across larger maps for teamgames
Can you provide 2vs2 tournament replays/caster videos featuring effective use of G43 panzerfusiliers as mainline infantry?
No, its the mod team who did.
You know, when they made them 0CP unit.
You are trying to fix what is clearly not broken.
But sure, lets buff them, have them become meta and then nerf them into irrelevance for another year afterwards to complete the cycle.
The mod team STATED that they are an alternative to volksgrenadier, and they utterly fail to be that alternative
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You literally have a player with OKW rank that we both can only dream of saying the contrary just a couple of posts above. I'll take the opinion of something working or not from someone who plays incomparably better then me than one of a random complainer.
We also had tournaments and comperitive play showing no sign whatsoever of Paznerfusiliers even with Grand Offensive being a meta commander. It's also ultimately a contrived design choice since I don't recall any unit ever performing WORSE than the initial cost warrants as trade off for a better caling than it should have except maybe Obersoldaten with passive suppression ability. It also happens to be in the only faction featuring a stock Tier 4 AI specialized infantry unit who just happened to have a massive well deserved timing buff, so there's an overabundance of arguments against it
And they -are- mainline alternative to them.
Just not without disadvantages or complete self reliance in very early game.
Nobody of the several people across the 3 differen OKW commander rework threads who mentioned how Panzerfussies are extremely underwhelming ever said anything like this. You made a wrong statement and backpedaled into an equally wrong strawman
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They were reworked into what they are at the moment.
There is no need to change them any further, they have very clear advantages and disadvantages as well as excellent scaling.
And they don't work for several reasons
Don't spam them alone, because that wasn't meant to be.
It's exactly what it was meant to be, the changelog says they are supposed to be a mainline altermative to Volks |
One thing to mention: Despite the tooltips, Panzerfusiliers are actually not a "long range" squad, they have the same preferred range as upgraded Volksgrenadiers, which is short/short-medium range. The G-43 is such a confusing weapon in this game, and the version that Fusiliers get is fairly shit at long range, and instead acts as you might expect the Sturmgewehr to.
I see what you mean, I noticed the same. This is why I think that the upgrade is totally unnecessary: as the models of weapons are limited, we now have the same guns performing wildly different in the hands of different unit. It would be actually much more suitable for mainline replacement if they didn't need munitions to upgrade but costed more and were better, like providing a doctrinal T1 soviet equivalent to the OKW. If they REALLY need handheld at one could further look into Penals and give them a 4 german PTRS upgrade that lowers their AI potency for decent AT potency. I find it an interesting solution because it conflicts with the design of OKW as faction with highly specialized set of units to create a more soviet-ish/usf-ish doctrinal unit |
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Since the OP mentions "increase the amount of viable/competitive commanders by buffing underperforming units/abilities or by replacing units/abilities" as goals
I would suggest looking into
Panzerfusiliers. My opinion is that they don't work as the intended mainline replacement for 4 reasons
>The concept of trading early game power per late game scalability was devised in a vacuum. The extra late game efficiency is simply not worth the weaker opening
>As a long range unit with recon capabilities, it overlaps heavily with JLI, and in general most of the OKW units except sturms doctrinal options are long range oriented units
>Obersoldaten are more viable than ever anyway
>None of their utility except previously mentioned recon options are in any way exclusive or special
They effectively are a 270 MP 100 MUNI 5 men Double Shreck squad
If anything, I would design Pfussies to be completely devoid of munition upgrades and SUFFER in late game scalability but be comparatively more expensive to field and reinforce and more powerful than Volksgrenadiers.
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My proposal would be to change the Schwere cost to 80 / 40 as opposed to 60 / 60 and make it so the Mg 34 isn't locked behind Flak Upgrade anymore
Just apply Sander/Miragefla changes, especially with okw teching |
The timing of Obers overall is just terrible for what they offer compared to other elite infantry. From my 2v2 experience its acceptable when you rush battlegroup into t4. But as soon as you go mech with luchs/puma/stuka you have to use call-in inf as an ober replacement. I just dont see a reason for obers to be in t4, while other comparable inf comes at cp2/3.
Mechanized or battlegroup could unlock Obers and the second built truck unlocks the lmg upgrade. This seems to be a more reasonable timing for me. If thats too soon, atleast make the lmg upgrade cheaper or free and the Stg obers a seperate unit. That would give the stg ability more flavor too.
Battlegroup would make the Obers come too early
A better solution imho would be to make Obers unlock either with Mechanized or by setting up the Schewer, with the latter being necessary for the MG upgrade |
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