It's a hypothetical meant to show off that quantity is not a stand-in for quality in CoH2. You losing a weak vehicle vs him having to repair his strong vehicle is not comparable. He will still have the strong vehicle, and you have one less weak vehicle. The low cost for low effectiveness is not desirable in CoH2, nothing is expendable in CoH2, every unit lost is an advantage to your enemy.
While I definitely agree that "elite" units are far better because of the greatly reduced micro tax, your hypothetical was really too far-fetched. It's why Panthers are so good at pretty much every level of play. Point taken but a better example would be nice.
Losing a T34-76 to an OKW p4 when you have a 2 v 1 advantage requires really really bad micro or really bad RNG and really shouldn't be treated like it's the norm or a reasonable situation.
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I highly advise you to check OKW P4 stats and compare them to T34 stats.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize why OKW P4 comes out on top.
I highly advise you to check the original poster's comment. 2 T34-76s shouldn't lose to an OKW P4 in any situation, even in a frontal max range stationary fight.
Of course we all know that the OKW P4 is individually superior. He was talking about 2 tanks vs 1 and still losing the engagement. |
Spammable is not even a favorable quality when it comes to vehicles. If you sent 2 T-34's against an OKW Panzer IV and it destroys one and escapes with low health, you lost that engagement. He still has a Panzer IV, he can repair it for free, and you are down 100 fuel, and he is that much closer to his next Panzer.
Maybe the problem is that you lost the engagement. Losing the engagement generally leads to negative results, perhaps? I mean, you have 2 medium tanks vs 1 of his and you're still losing the fight somehow.
It's like the USF players running across red cover vs sandbag Volks and constantly screaming about how OP Volks are.
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This still wont change the fact that commanders that rely on Conscripts and Conscript upgrades instead of elite infantry struggle greatly late game because once your vetted conscript squad dies you are going to have a problem fielding any significant infantry.
This problem is unique for the cons since for example the MP40 Volksgrenadiers (closed unit to ppsh cons) scale way better into late game due to their better veterancy and more consistent dps curve.
Another way to bring the PPSh41 upgrade into line with the other assault packages for line infantry is to give PPSH41's but tone down the performance of each gun to m3 grease gun mp40 levels. Again, for the more consistent dps curve. Also the CP's need to be lower and similar to mp40 and sten upgrade at 0CP.
Volks have had inferior vet bonuses compared to Cons and Riflemen for almost 3 years now.
PPshes are way better than mp40s, and mp40 Volks drop proportional dps way faster than PPSH cons. |
Oh give me a break USF is better but is still inferior to both Axis factions. There are no get out jail free cards with USF if you screw up just once you're done. There are no guaranteed King King Tigers, no guaranteed elite infantry to replace your dead sqauds with.
Hmmm. I guess it's a 50-50 between some guy who insists that everything USF is woefully underpowered and statistics mined from tens of thousands of games which generally corroborate top players' sentiments.
Credit: Siphon X |
The combination of heavy sappers and pitas is so bad, they suck against inf and thanks to the slowing mechanism they are to slow to flank tanks.
But most likely u even wont make it to heavy sappers, where u have your Sturmpio right at the beginning.
What i want to say, after all this patient and resources u spent they felt complete underwhelming why couldn't they be therefore at least the fastest repairing unit in game. I mean the heavy sappers upgrade got nerved in the December patch by almost 75% percent, that was to much.
And for all other's i agree with the changes to ost & su but i feel like UKF got left behind now.
The thing is in a normal 1v1 game u working 70% of the time in the game with a standard 4 man squad there you also have to equip a sweeper and lose 25% combat performance, which come at T1 cost 10 mp more but repairs now slower then a T0 200 Mp unit.
I can understand that they wanted to bring the eastern pios in line with western pios but they did it mainly because of the Sturmpios and USF vehicle crews and UKF got left behind now.
Did you just say 70% of the game you're on 4-man squads? We've found the problem with your play.
Early bolster has been oppressive and meta for quite a long time. Brits actually spend 80% of the game with 5-man squads unlocked.
Point taken that heavy sappers suck. And Churchills just got nerfed real hard, it seems that Hammer might finally be chosen again.
Brits are left behind by a tiny bit on repair speed for a couple of days - Ost and Sov were left behind for like 5 years.
Brits have been badly designed ever since they first came out. This seems to be the first version of Brits we're getting that doesn't seem flat out busted. Of course, best solution is still to remove them from the game, then we wouldn't even have these complaints.  |
There is no "tank destroyer" meta. Allied mediums and even "advanced mediums" are garbage, there is hardly any point in fielding them as they become redundant as Panthers start to roll out, fielding Tigers instead of Panthers does not change anything.
Nothing has fundamentally changed aside of useless allied units becoming more useless (and even more after similar changes will be done to allied heavies)
The real question what is the point of allied mediums in first place if they get hard-countered minutes after rolling out, as if T-34-85 losing to magical OKW P4 and its near Panther level armor wasnt enough
Pretty much a l2p problem.
T34-85 has higher penetration and better armour than standard mediums, giving it excellent odds vs OKW P4. T34-85's 65ish% chance to pen OKW P4 isn't much worse than the P4's 70 or so % chance to pen the T34-85.
And oh, T34-85 has a massive 125% health advantage despite costing less fuel. Statistically the T34-85 is dominant in head-to-head showdowns with the OKW P4. |
Imo Puma is the likeliest counter because of 60 range. Even then it needs 4 shot, the same number as Jackson vs P4...but P4 target size is much easier.
Scott is just so fast and small , P4 is going to miss if you dive it, and expose itself to TD, AT.
Ostwind and Luch do less damage. If Usf want to switch scott for pwafer, then Ost and Luch will have a good day.
Scott is simply too cheap for its performance.
Puma doesn't have 60 range. |
I think Panzer IVs, Ostwinds, Luchs, and Pumas hard counter M8 Scotts and lame Pack Howitzers pretty well.
Luchs hard counter Scotts eh. You do realise the Scotts uses the same chassis as, and therefore has the exact same defensive stats as the Stuart? After a full reload cycle and with both vehicles on the move, the Scotts loses about 1/4 of its health.....What a hard counter.
Ostwinds and P4s don't have the acceleration and speed to catch the Scotts, unless you are really bad with your light vehicle micro. Which of course we know you are, since you're constantly reporting that Axis units just existing makes your light vehicles unusable and you're losing them all the time in hilarious l2p fashion.
Puma, while being able to counter Scotts, is literally built only for the purpose of countering Light Vehicles -> which the Scotts is. |
Note. That there were only FAST loses with a penal builds last tournament.
Penal builds are SLOWEST BUILDS in the game with ANY FACTION. Open with T1 = t70 after p4.
T1 means you are likely to lose your fuel or even cutoff. Later it can be both
1. Mass 222s
2. Ostwinds with no opposition
that would win the game
You're getting your T70 at the 13 to 15 minute mark.
We already know what your problem is. |
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