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I wonder where the UKF meta will go if the LM gets nerfed. What's a funner/easier commander to fight, Mobile Assault, or Advanced Emplacement? |
That could kind of work.
However this means that Brits get no smoke until the first Churchill/Comet. In that case, it's better to avoid buying infantry upgrades altogether.
Maybe... unless the mortar pit was changed as well to make it more appealing to both it's users and it's opponents. Namely, being easier to counter but more versatile as a result. I'd like to try out giving the pit it's old light/heavy shells back, with possibly a normal smoke barrage coming stock, with a either no Vet 1 ability or another to compensate.
Also, historically, 25 Pounders had smoke shells. How would the game/meta react to the pyro flares unlocking a smoke barrage flare as well? |
I think that no matter how strong you make the smoke projector of the churchill, this will never match the effectiveness of a long-range smoke shell from the Cromwell, both in terms of protecting itself, or in terms of protecting juicy targets (firefly), or in terms of covering advancing infantry.
You -are- putting the tank in danger anyway, and there's only one avenue of attack you are creating; right behind the churchill. A clever adversary will just fire at the churchill and suppress all your troops, or will just use indirect fire.
The Cromwell can also flank stuff with ease, which the Churchill can't do. Thus, the churchill makes little chance to build, even if you go Anvil, unless you're playing Pripyat sector or Trois Points.
A better idea would be to have the Churchill provide something complementary to Cromwell's smoke shell. If the Churchill could spawn a smoke cloud that could prevent infantry from being suppressed that would already make it a high-utility tank.
This will make the Churchill a high-value target for the enemy, thus allowing it to fulfill its role as a meatshield (now, it can be safely ignored).
In that way, Hammer will be the specialization about tank support, and Anvil will be about infantry-support.
The question, then, becomes about how to make said smoke buff not synergise too well with LMG blobs.
What about losing the Cromwell's smoke shell then? It would need something in return though... the Cromwell had an advantage in surprise in the war, due to it's low profile... I wonder, would a Jagdpanzer esque cloak be too over powered? |
People still want the British mortar emplacement, but it's hard to balance and many British players would prefer a mobile mortar.
Solution? Give the Brits a T1 mobile 3-inch mortar squad, make mortar pit into a garrisonable emplacement which can be garrisoned by mortars, where they get some sort of bonus at vet 1 like the Vickers when in buildings, or just give them general protection to make it worthwhile.
That covers both sectors, can be balanced similar to other mobile mortar counterparts, eliminates the "special" mortar balance and still keeps them unique in terms of faction design.
Maybe. In my opinion mobile mortars isn't the way to go with the British. I think the pit (as it is now) needs nerfed in range, brace and possibly damage, but also made more versatile in return.
However, I would suggest the idea that on the death of the pit, there is a slight chance (say, 20% chance) that an abandoned mortar is left behind. That way, you can get the mobile mortar squad, and the loss of the pit isn't felt as much (it may also have the added benefit of making it less appealing for the player to defend). |
Problem is that with hammer all you need is Comet, nothing else.
With anvil, you won't live long spamming Churchills. You need to combined them with Firefly.
So here is a question.
Do you prefer 2 Coments or 1 Churchill and 1 Firefly?
Churchill is just damage-sponge which needs something hard-hitting.
Comet does everything on its own.
I belive that small armor buff (so it has quite good chance of bouncing pak40) and AI buff would suit very well.
Right now it's a great tool to help axis' paks and panthers vet quite fast huh...
I wholeheartedly agree with your opinion and suggestions. |
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Except the Tiger has a good gun and armour, the Churchill does not. When the Churchill changes for the better, the rotation speed will be nerfed, but until then, it's fine as it is.
Also, the only tank to the game that fills the same role as the Churchill is the KV-1. Which has a rotation rate of 30.
Plus the Tiger is a much larger tank and puts a larger strain on it's gearbox then the Churchill does. |
I would give Comet lackluster penetration, it gives breathing room for firefly. Comet would still work great in flanks due heavy tank rear armor nerfs. Comet for flanking attack and Churchill for frontal assault.
According to CoH2 stats, the Comet already has less pen then it's peers (190 compared to the Panthers 240 or the Jackson's 220 and the Firefly's 240). Maybe a drop to 180 or 170-75, but the tank should still be able to do well against other tanks. |
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I'd rather not see the British getting a mobile mortar, given how the argument for them not having snares is that not every faction needs to have the same things as the others, so the same argument could be used for them not having mobile mortars (I'll also state for the record that I'm opposed to giving them snares). I do feel though that the pit needs nerfed in the range department, and *possibly* the ROF department and the health department. Though I would also like to see it being able to fire different shells as a result to make up for this.
I apologise for being a bit off topic. Anyway, the post was interesting. How does a single British mortar compare to, say, a Wehrmacht one? |
How about removing Comets and making them doctrinal? I always felt relic added them to the brits just to make them really worth the bucks you paid...
Imo UKF could have all tank-tools they need, if everything worked as it should: Centaur AI, Cromwell good medium, Firefly AT and Churchill infantry support.
I too think, the smoke ability shouldn't cripple the Churchills movement and it could actually be worth the while (and the cost) in its supporting role.
I don't think making the Comet doctrinal would change anything, if not make things worse because it'll become the most, if not the only, used commander. The Comet exists the same way the Panther exists, and almost fills the same roles, the Comet having better AI, the Panther better at AT due to it's higher pen. Though the Comet is more expensive then both Panthers. The problem being that the Comet fills too many roles. Which is why I feel it needs a slight AI nerf.
I feel that changes should also be made to Anvil and Hammer as well to make them more appealing as a whole, rather then just focusing on the tanks. |
Yes it will, if comet wernt so good, we will be seeing some nice Armour combos such as firefly in combination with Churchill
Well, how would use propose changing the Comet? It's already more expansive then the Panther, and while it has more DPS, it lacks in Pen compared to it. All I would suggest would be removing the Mills bomb toss (though possibly keeping the Vet 3 passive toss) and changing how the WP shell works through either range, cost, cooldown, or damage. |
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