How much game you played as SU? Just interesting.
KV-8 - if enemy retreat - you win, if you could kill his troops - it's good. But retreat ALWAYS mean that bttlefield in your hands. Want instakill enemy soldiers use Sturmtiger or Avre.
M4C - it's good for its; cost, can beat p4 and can beat heavies with HVAP rounds.
I think you mean T34, right? T-34 is bigger version of T-70, it's not supposed to fight 1vs1 p4. Use flanking, attack enemy soldiers, use Ram.
You main AT in SU T4 - Su-85, while T-34 is support unit for it.
Agreed with the above. Yet, saying that ost has better and more snares is a nonsense.
Still, there are more stock abilities on, for example, Soviet squads in general compared to Ostheer. They also get commander abilities and they are usually more powerful against 4 men squads or tanks. Coming back to at they include partisans or ambush conscript at nades. They also get for mother russia when it comes to sprints, etc. It is a simple fact that players trying to prove that ost has more powerful abilities/units than Soviets are simply wrong.
Mama Russia and Papa Faterland were nerfed - no more sprint in combat.
If you want AT-ambush, make shrecks and camo from doctrine for pgrens.
OST have some powerfull abilities too: AT stuka strafe, Stuka with cluster bombs, blietzkried and smoke for tanks, suppression Stuka. Each faction have their own good and weak sides.
Really, it's all looks like you want count how much SU units have access to snare and make from it conclusion than cons better than grens or overall that SU is better than OST. I can too count how many OST stock units have access to grenades and make from it conclusion that OST better that SU or grens better than cons. But it conclusion from series that water is wet and fire is hot.
I tried a 120 in a match today that was infantry heavy on Elst. It got no kills in around 30 minutes of playing. It costs about 40% more than a standard mortar, while having a much slower fire rate and the same damage, just over a little bit larger area. It's the worst mortar in the game.
This mortar not design to kill fullhealth squads, it design to bleed them and make them retreat. One shot and the whole squad turned to wounded, almost died mens. IF you want, you can make 2 120 mm mortars - after that you will see how tough it can be. I saw sometimes this strat, in small maps it could be effective.
Don't give me tips - just be more objective - Sov have many more non-doc snare possibilities while ost has only one on grens. Soviet can egip more squads with at weapons (some of them for free) and have both the snare and at weapons on penals.
This objective from series - Sun rises on East and sets on West. Want to count how much axis stock armor have access to HMG upgrade and how SU? Or how much stock axis units have access to barrage and how SU? What point of it? Show that cons with at-nades better than grens with fausts and grens need some of cons abilities?
Soviets can equip with snare on 1 stock unit more - penals. But again, no one play penals + cons combo. Or penals + elite infantry or cons+elite infantry, not penals with cons.
You can make penals+guards - costly, but effective.
You can make penals + ptrs cons from doc.
You can make cons + AT-partisans, because AT_nade upgrade mutual for all of them.
But no one make T1 opening and than make at-nade upgrade and build cons to support penals. I always watch games of pro-player and champs. If this tactic was better than regular "only penals/cons spam" at least some of pros regulary use it.
The problem is that Penal/ST44 VGs are Op and not that conscripts are bad...
It is the
Penal that need a redesign and not conscripts.
Agree. But looks like no one want make big redesign of SU core system. Any "debuff" to penals lead to dead T1 (also farewell snipers and M3). In fact we have only 2 ways:
1. Redesign of penals, penals potent but "new"
2. Completely remove them from SU core, remake SU core and add instead other unit.
2-nd way:
Remove T1, only T2 is exist. M3 and sniper locked in T0, while T2 not been deployed. In T2 you have maxim, mortar, M-42 as ATG, Sidetech upgrade to unlock zis-gun and AT-nades. If T2 deployed cons will get molotovs.
Another way - core system still as is. No penals. But make that if you have T1 you can - "upgrade" your cons squad to AT-hunters, or close combat squad. They turned in completely new squads. That will save cons as mainline infantry and they will be needed to other squads as well and also will save T1 and sniper with M3.
IMO conscripts are better at at duties because of their hoorah ability. Grens just don't have that and they have trouble fausting and chasing - sth conscripts can do.
Yes grens don't have sprint, but have non-tech snare and got weapon upgrades much more earlier than cons.
Want chasing for grens? Use doctrinal sprint, use camo from docs. The same as for cons weapons - want weapon upgrades for cons - use docs.
Cons are build from tier 0 and grens need a structure - so you don't tech to build cons but you tech to give them extras; you tech to build grens but you don't tech to give them panzerfaust. Cons are 6 or 7 men while grens are 4 so it is easier to wipe grens with vehicles they snare.
I remember that some time ago grens was in T0, while mg-42 was locked in T1 building. Want make reverse?
Want 5-man grens - use doc.
Coming back to snares there are many more ways in which cons can cooperate with other AT squads. Cons hoorah and snare, penals stchel and fonish off.
How much you saw in competitive games that someone go to T1 and after make sidetech to AT-nades and build cons? I almost never. Only tank-hunter doc could give you such combo tactic. All SU almost every game play or penals or cons. But i almost never saw penals + cons even in low tiers game. If you think i am wrong you could saw Dane streams where he comment SU games, try to find wher you see such combo as you described.
I could give you tip how to use faust with other AT squads: grens with faust and pgrens with shrecks - very potent combo.
If you have other ideas how make cons PLAYABLE in game, instead of this Mobile Reserve upgrade (or maybe you have ideas for WHOLE redesign of unit - that make it playable, without current abilities and techs), it will be good to hear. Because no one want again play only in T1 penals. I think you remember the last champs (1vs1 and 2vs2) all SU almost every game go to penals not cons.
Applies most to wehr and they are hardest to come back. As related to topic. Wehr units dont scale well and their more static meta have been given too much counter.
Yesterday Dane stream: game will end after 13 minutes. You still think that comeback hardest for OST? I hadly can imagine that ally could comeback from such position as OST player did. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/490137237?t=01h03m44s
Right again. Or you could be leading in vp and control, allies keep able to preserve and retreat.
than a good/lucky flank once they massed up, you lose your vet units and force to full retreat, and your wehr army brakes down and not possible to comeback.
This rule "good/lucky flank from OST" apply to allies too.
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