Still very powerful against heavies, or multiple mediums clustered/bumping into one another
The il2 bombing run power is great because of its precision, but that also means its easier to dodge. The ptab is just way more spread out
You saw video about comparsion ptab and OST frag bombs?
https://youtu.be/K12SyHCD4qY
They both deal damage to vehicle and blinded them, but OST comes much faster and wipe infantry as well. You have entire commander with all abilities ONLY against armor, without any elite infantry or heavies or any sort of AI support. And you crucial ability just don't work well for your favor.
This doctrine not picked only for light-at mines, ml-20 or stealth. It picked for at-package and good late-game ability. Just imagine if "Close the pocket" was ninja nerfed? Who will pick this commander, when his major ability screwed? You even could remember old defensive doc from SU, until it got AT-arty strike no one played it. |
Really it's not rocket science as to why Soviets slightly overperform at the moment. The 7-man upgrade is too powerful currently for its cost, this doesn't necessarily mean the upgrade comes too early as Cons still aren't amazing early game but they are probably the most cost-efficient squad in the entire game once they are bolstered and vetted up. At only 17 mp reinforce cost they are roided up versions of Ostruppen. I would be for the upgrade itself receiving some nerfs, maybe an increase in cost and possibly some slight nerfs to performance in cover to make them a little less efficient against certain units. In change you could make the upgrade not require molo's and AT Nades and be up-gradable once you build Tier 3.
Before 7-th man was implemented, i suggested make linear upgrade (with medics you got decreased cost of reinforce, with T2 time of reinforce decreased) and replace flare mine by passive fast sandbag building, but without any combat-bonuses. With T3 got 10MP cost reduction to new squad and with T4 another 20 Mp. Than you could get "mass, cheap" infantry. They don't have any in-combat boosts (besides fast sandbag), but very cheap in maintence. Idea was make cons scaling with natural teching like OST teching works. IT's much easier to balance to prevent huge powerspikes in certain timeframes.
The T-70 is in an odd state because it does come late but it is the strongest light tank in the game against infantry and can swing the entire game almost immediately if counters aren't present.
If you don't have any counter to flame-ht you will be screwed as well. Any enemy move need counter-move. You need counter to M5 Quad, that could lock big zone from you; need proper counter to ass-gren spam or mg-spam.
I'm not sure if the problem is the T-70 being so strong against infantry that you almost have to go for a Puma to counter or if the Raketen is just too squishy against the T-70. I feel the T-70 could probably be made cheaper but have its performance reduced slightly to compensate making it more like the Panzer II so the SU-76 can fill a Puma-like role in Soviet Tier 3. Plus if T-70 gets toned down we could see more M5's which would be nice.
SU-76 NEVER could be like puma (don't have turret, smoke and much worse mobility). Puma could dive any LV, but diving su-76? I suggested make from su-76 arty support unit (could be deployed as kv-2 and use regular barrage for free and smoke barrage), while have penetration potent only against LV. In that case you could have AI tool, but with indirect style, while T-70 is more aggressive style.
M5 good (much cheaper and good suppresion), but only 2 shots from pak or rak and it's gone. T-70 could forget you some mistakes. M5 don't.
Possible decision for t-70 - switchable rounds, like it was in reality.
1. Shrapnel shots - lower rof and pen, but have aoe. Tweak damage and range. You still could deal damage to infantry, but wih lesser range, that make it more "micro-oriented" risky unit.
2. Ap shots - higher rof and pen, but with much less AI power
Heavies in general need to be changed but the IS-2 just does everything well. With reduced scatter it no longer struggles against infantry and can wipe units rapidly with decent RNG, it also has really strong armor and can come pretty early at 10 CP. Which can often be a disaster for a player who opted for a medium tank before going for armor that can deal with the IS-2. In general heavies probably need to be delayed somehow, maybe an increase in cost, CP's, or further tech requirements for them. At least for the Pershing, IS-2, and possibly the Ostheer Tiger.
Heavy meta ALWAYS was win or lose decision, you trying to survive against enemy mediums push while you don't got your heavy. It's very close to T-70 situation, when you have it, you could push enemy, but when first medium arrived, you are 70 fuel down and need wait until your t-34 arrive. THe same with heavies, you could push by mediums your enemy while he waiting heavy. |
Doctrine have onle few problems:
1. Ml-20 don't fit in any sense to these commander, better replace it by mark target.
2. Ninja nerf of AT-bombing. It even couldn't kill 1 stug, while cost onle 20 ammo less than bombing run (that could kill entire tiger), while in old-times it was really powerfull ability. It's like "Close the pocket" in OST doctrine - the main and bright ability of this comander. |
You are completely missing the point. Cons are viable now because they work at all stages of the game. Before, going cons meant you would be stuck with infantry that couldn't do anything late game. They were a meme and people joked their only purpose was being a snare. Infantry of all things needs to work at all stages of the game and cons failed to work properly late game.
Losing vet definitely hurts all factions, but all factions are able to mitigate that with munitions. Previously cons could not. Previously when you placed a con squad you had exactly the same unit you built at the start of the game. Replacing a gren squad and slapping an lmg42 on it makes it easier to regain that vet due to increased dps and centralized dps meaning even dropping models when not vetted didn't hurt quite as much. It would be like if all tanks but one had the ability to pay to increase reload and health. That one wouldn't cut it facing other tanks that have vet and enhanced stats via the upgrade.
Yes combined arms is strong.... That's intended... Let's bring other factions up to that level!
As for the over achieving strengths, they need to be decreased. We're on the same page there. Crutch units are bad design and every unit should be viable. I've been advocating for that for years...
It's also part of meme that cons are "utility, support unit, not mainline infantry" and when you build T2, you build support weapon to support your support units (while your support infantry supporting your support weapon). Cruel loop of supporting...
I never, never saw in any competitive game 1vs1, 2vs2 that someone ever used penals + cons. You need make unique upgrades for cons, to get their utility, while if you will go in such build you also need T1 and expensive penals as mainline.
Only viable way use cons as support was guards+cons (merge don't have any sense for shocks, only in very desperate situations). But now with 7-th man, you at least have option to play through cons as mainline infantry, not sprinting snare squad. Who need MP bleeding squad which couldn't hold the ground against enemy infantry? Don't forget about joke that called maxim and we are realized why cons were so broken until got upgrade.
If someone want debuff cons, OK. But make maxim viable as every other HMG in-game. That you could play through support weapon+cons. |
Is there is benchmark faction in Starcraft2? Or benchmark hero in League of Legends? Benchmark faction in Warcraft? |
It is, new you get buffed and then the "old" one needs buff also. And that is was it suggested. Buffing Ostheer more although they recently received a number of buffs like:
Better ostwind
earlier Pgs
DR in grenadier
It is not the Ostheer that need buffs or even the UKF that need buffes. It the OKW/Soviet/USF that need nerf.
Nice logic.
1. Find broken or underused unit
2. Unit don't need changes, we just need nerf 2 or 3 faction to make unit workable
3. ...
5. PROFIT!!
SU-76 don't need changes - nerf all axis
Ostwind didn't need changes - nerf all allies
COns didn't need changes - nerf all axis
Pgrens didn't need changes - nerf all allies
Repeat that cursed cirlce of nerfing for each unit....
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Read more carefully, the upgrade would universal, no more munition to get the upgrade
I understand right, that molotovs, at-nades and "this" upgrade - 1 big upgrade and it only could be build in T3 or T4? No more early molotos and at-nades?
Combined arm or superior numbers.
What about maxim? it still in old state? How deal with superior numbers when your infantry have the same cost as enemy?
Your point?
Arty support unit as i said before.
Want to remove power combo form all factions.
Maybe make all faction identical, but with different skins? |
Stock suggestion for Soviet:
Reduce the Power level of M3
Decrease power level.
Lower cost to 0-5 fuel, lower DPS, passenger no longer can shoot out of the vehicle.
Available upgrades:
"Drive by" cost 30-40 munition, passengers can now shoot out of the vehicle.
Other changes:
OKW get Faust at truck build not set up, generally OKW tech unlock should come with truck built not set since time varies from truck placement.
Passenger no longer die on vehicle destroyed, they receive RNG damage and stun or suppress.
Dead unit. Want rebalance? Or make it like bren carrier or make it like kuble (fast, cheap unit with recon for fast decap). With what you suggested it will be dead unit. You need spend 100 ammo to get ability shot from open-top vehicle from flamer? For squishy, low armored unit?
Penal
Decrease power level.
Cost down to 280 built time reduced, come with 4 mosin 2 SVT, satchel removed, PTRS removed. SVT profile changed to be good at mid but worse at max closer to M1 profile.
PTRS change to have lower reaction time.
Available upgrades:
"Research demolition charges" requires tech to unlock, gives access to demo for Penal and CE. CE can be re-balanced.
"AT upgrade" requires tech to unlock, gives access to PTRS AT satchel, AT satchel no longer causes critical only damage. At some a threshold was introduced so that vehicles would not run from infatry, there is little reason to have 1 shot engine engine damage available.
"AI upgrade" give 4 access to 4 SVT.
Personal preference, remove PTRS upgrade, introduce a separate AT dedicated AT squad like AT conscripts 2 PTRS AT grenades no ourah/merge, maybe "hit the ground" so it can still fire back vs AAHT. (The doctrinal option could improve this squad 3 PTRS camo and AT volley).
The higher cost from all mainline infantries and besides need building? 4 man? Need additional unique only for them upgrades? Downgraded version of grens, but with higher cost and with payable upgrades?
Conscripts:
Remove 7 men upgrade.
Available upgrades:
"Soviet conscription" available from t3 or T4 with a tech cost universals upgrade for all conscripts the XP/reinforcement bonuses only.
Personal preference, redesign Penal conscript as offensive/defensive infatry.
And they still need pay for upgrades lolotovs and at-nades as new penals? Right? Who will be mainline infantry for SU? Now you can play through cons, because you know that you can fight in late against vetted, upgraded axis infantry and don't lost map pressure. With these...i don't know. Only if your upgrade don't lock weapon slot and it's global (buy 1 time for all and for news guys too). But will want you deal with svt cons or ppsh cons with lower cost reinforcement?
T-70
Decrease power level.
Cheaper less lethal
How you will deal with axis infantry when they will got mg-42 adn stg-44?
M5 Qaud
Decrease power level.
Cheaper less lethal, reduce AA capability, possibly move suppression to separate upgrade or make it a timed ability.
Dead unit. It already have removed "on-moved suppresion", you need pay 90 muni for quad and another muni for supression? Maybe for flame-ht and flak-ht make the same? Fuel in fuel tank of flame-ht need to be repayed by muni. Want suppression for flak-ht pay muni. Don't you think that it will be dead units?
SU-76
Replace vet 1 tracking with barrage, Fix XP value.
How often you see current su-76 in games? I almost never. You can also rewatch 1vs1 tournament, try to find it.
SU-85
Replace vet 1 focus sight ability now scale with veterancy, providing less sight at vet 1. Vet bonuses overhaul.
How scale? Debuff still the same? How you want cahnge vet? Don't forget, su-85 - turretless TD. Only one stock armored unit in SU roster that can deal with panthers and KT.
T-34/76
Tone down MG damage, "ram" replace by "full speed" a "skill" shot making the tank move straight fast. At vet 1 it can "ram" on collision ability scales with veterancy.
And how you will be deal with infantry? How ram scales? It will be destroy enemy gun and engine on vet2,vet3? Or maybe only stun, but your tank also get stunned, but without cripple gun and engine?
Doctrinal changes:
Remove Radio intercept, IL strafe/Bombing, Mark target, ATG camo from IS-2/IS-152 commanders.
If this units remain so dominant they rest of the abilities should be weaker.
(same changes suggested for other factions.)
You want rebalance ALL factions in game and tones of commanders as well?
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About maxims. We should avoid spamming, but create unit that work as others HMG in game and don't forget about death loop problem. In fact, in reality maxim good for defense and very bad for offense due high weight. It's weapon for static warfare as was WW1.
Increase cost, increase build time, decrease speed of unit (but speed of retreating still the same) add ability for crew build defensive position - similar to USF HMG nest (crew got the same debuff as engeneers when repairing while build it). Get defense bonus and increase arc of fire to level of mg-42, got passive buff to suppression and speed of reload.
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In that state, in T4 soviets got mediums that excel enemy stock mediums, but couldn't fight alone against panther and KT. Kv-1 for damage soaking. No 60 range "everything pen" TD that stop any push. |