Every Sniper Unit costs 360 Manpower and signifcantly decreases your map presence for a certain amount of time. The best way to go if you do not have a Counter Sniper available is to hide behind shot blockers in order to avoid bleeding (Only show yourself to avoid a cutoff!) which will also diminish Sniper's effectiveness: By hiding your units you will ensure that the hostile Sniper is not worth his purchase. Rush for light vehicles and flank from multiple sides to overtax your opponent's mind and try to eliminate the Sniper. In case you are successful you will have Manpower advantage for a decent amount of time which you have to exploit further by pushing aggressively to broaden your advantage on every ressource type and Victory Point wise.
Thoughts on ostheer sniper? I feel their RoF is a tad too high especially when grens can screen and faust a vehicle dive and the 222 comes a few minutes after which is in general a bit too good for its cost also.
I used to play 1v1's but not anymore. Besides, heavy tanks are hardly even worth mentioning in 1v1's. If you're dragged into a 13 cp late game in 1v1 as USF, there's already a problem there. The game should've be over in the first 15 mins. Not discrediting the use of your heavy tank or skills, but axis clearly have the advantage late game and that's a whole nother topic I don't really care to discuss about.
The USF is at its weakest relatively to axis late game yes, but people never play perfect games and often for whatever reason some games are close and get dragged into the lategame (and 13cps can come in like 20 minutes anyway).
Also have you not met 80% of OKW players who camp with ISGs under a defensive schwerer covering a vp and cutoff/fuel?
Make ONE mistake and that schwerer goes up 100% dragging the game on whether you want it to or not.
In team games (I don't even play above 2s so am only commenting even from the small scaled perspective of 2v2s) the Pershing isn't amazing but is still far and away the best tank USF can field.
In 1v1s its a great tank.
By all means I would love if it the Pershing got buffed though if that is what you are suggesting it needs. 210 fuel and 12cps would mean the destruction can start just that little bit earlier.
Coh2 heavy tanks are restricted to 1 at a time. Pershing is restricted to 1. It's a heavy tank by Coh2 standards. Period.
About the Pershing: It has better agility and gains vet faster. On the other hand the Tiger gets very powerful vet bonuses, especially vet2 with increased range and decreased scatter makes it vastly superior compared to the Pershing. At vet3 its speed comes close to that of the Pershing.
The Pershing goes down in 5 hits and is usually confronted with AT weapons that have higher penetration than the Tiger. For a Tiger 7 hits are needed.
There's also a variety of Tiger doctrines with different playstyles and lethal offmap abilities. The Pershing doctrine on the other hand is weak against defensive playstyles, especially Pak43 or superheavies. A quick death can also be delivered by a Command Panther.
Tiger is 7 but again HVAP is a garanteed 240 which makes the duels much closer than you might first think and is always garanteed for the pershing whereas the tiger can get unlucky with only a 73% pen chance.
Agreed with your last paragraph- it definitely has problems in team games where super heavies actually exist (and in numbers) and campier playstyles are possible, but i think the Pershing is a FANTASTIC tank for 1v1s. It also fits the CP/resource curve where you can play lt into m20 into captain and stuart and hit the fuel right about when you hit the CPs so maximises the powercurve.
Same problem as the Firefly, you need to invest tons of ammo in the tank to make it perform at 100% of his AT Capability which is flat-BS
Yes but the firefly (non-vet 3) is a shit tank destroyer besides its tulips (which cost 100, AND have an equip cost) and does nothing versus infantry whereas the pershing is an infantry killing monster with or without HVAP. HVAP just lets it compete with most axis heavy armour.
Can we please tack on the Acceleration/ Deceleration, speed, target size, and turret traverse? Thanks
The Pershing is substantially faster (6 vs 4.7) substantially better acceleration (2 vs 1.5) and MASSIVELY better deceleration (4 vs 1.8).
The pershing gains +30% accel/decel on vet 1 whereas the tiger gains +20% speed +20% accel/decel on vet 3.
This leaves the tiger at vet 3 slower than the pershing (5.64) and with massively worse accel/decel. The pershing also gains its added nimbleness far earlier than the tiger.
All in all the Pershing is substantially more mobile than the tiger.
Yeh, and the ability also causes you to lose 90 munitions on any vehicles that just leaves the Pershings range lol.
The Tiger has a passive ability that costs nothing and stuns other tanks for a few secs. That's a hell of a lot better than a 90 munitions ability that lets you shoot 1 extra time that misses on anything that is moving even a slight bit lol.
It's not as good as you hype it out to be. Everyone knows the ability lets you double shot, but that hardly comes in handy when it's 90 munitions, has a ridiculously long cooldown and misses the majority of the time.
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HVAP is insane, its 240 damage (50% more than the tiger or pershings regular shots) and ALWAYS pens. Its also super easy to hit on enemy mediums and heavies because it only takes about 1 second to shoot. You just need to learn the delay and to lead the target a bit. Its also allows for gibbing lighter vehicles like luchss/puma and quite often people leave mediums like stugs/panzers low enough to get double tapped because they forget about the ability. The problem is it gets fucked (like tulips) by elevation changes, but if you are shooting roughly on the flat or downhill, its an awesome ability. Quite frankly late game you always have munitions for HVAP if you want to play around it with some to spare.
The pershing is also a huge squad wipe threat to axis (slightly better aoe than tiger and chasing down squads with 75% moving accuracy) and axis smaller squads in general.
Furthermore in a tiger vs pershing duel the Pershing pens the tiger 9% more often which helps reduce the firing time discrepancy (albeit doesn't make up for it).
The Pershing seems to vet up super fast (probably because it kills so much but it may also have lower vet requirements (?)) so you almost always get to vet 3 before the tiger in my experience which gives it a significant temporary edge. Also as US you should have more fuel because of more map control because of better early game so can often get the pershing out before the ost can call a tiger.
Basically HVAP transforms the Pershing into something highly threatening to tanks (as well as retaining potent AI ability in general). Without HVAP I think the Pershing would be very meh for its cost but with it I think its awesome. Take for example the panther, a total nightmare for USF armour in general. If you duel a panther and happen to pen the first shot, then just double tap and the panther has lost HALF its hitpoints! Its slow firing and now has to back right away or risk dying whilst the pershing is on 83% HP with a faster RoF assuming the panther also penned.
I'm waffling a lot but basically HVAP allows you shut down enemy tank pushes. 1 Pen + HVAP and most tanks have to back right off and have downtime for repairs.
I'm not saying the tiger isn't a great tank, but I really think, especially backed by USFs general roster, the Pershing is fantastic and is the only doctrine that gives USF a properly threatening late game (especially in 1v1s).
How? It dies so quickly, and when kubels were changed back in the fall it became terrible at killing them. You're right about the cost, it costs the same fuel as a 222, which is insane even for a cp 0 vehicle. That said, it still dies so quickly. If it gets fausted its almost certainly going to die shortly after. At most its useful as a transport.
The WC51 is actually really good with a rifle in it. You can zoom around the map for a few minutes winning every fight you want and getting the exact parts of the map you want. OKW is helpless until they get a raketen, and as long as you avoid exploding to a stealthed raketen (a bit hard admittedly when it does like 95% of the WCs HP bar) you have forced your opponent into having way less AI field presence early game and can just withdraw and refit the WC at that point anyway.
Problem is its in a shitty doctrine with absolutely no endgame, so its literally an all your eggs in one basket doctrine (the first 2-4 minutes of play hinging on WC51 performance).
I used to think it was shitty back from my noob days but tried it about a week ago for the lolz and went on a 13 winstreak using exclusively mechanised doc! Took out several top 30 players in the process.
Still though I don't like to use it except for a bit of variety because I am uncomfortable getting to late game without the Pershing against OKW as quite frankly Pershing and Sherman HE shells are the only way to kill vetted OKW squads of players who are attentive, and the Sherman often sucks with its AT/AP toggle.
I still haven't really found the solution, and honestly I've pretty much given up on Brits in 1v1 as a result. I'm sure I'll come back to them after a while, but 222 rush every game is just so fucking boring.
My best tactic is to just try and hold onto early fuel, rush tech and get both a sniper and an RE squad. Then, try and nail the inevitable 222 with a mine. Most Ost players will be pretty aggressive with that thing to try and rush the sniper so it is sometimes possible to bait them over the mine, but overall still a pretty weak and inconsistent solution. Not to mention, even if you get the kill the second 222 will still be out long before AEC.
AT tommies kinda help, but not all that much. They can't really threaten a single 222 since they kill it pretty darn slow, and 2 222s just mow them down.
Quite frankly I think the 222 is just too good at the moment. Its dirt cheap, shits on light vehicles and many light tanks, doesn't really take damage from infantry and can just gun up to them in cover and chew them down also.
It was fine as it was but now with 320 hp it can take some AT hits and still have a good safety buffer to get away whereas before it would often be flirting with engine/gun damage criticals.
I'm having trouble against them as USF also. They really shut down the M20 (lt tier) so hard whilst being much cheaper than an m20 anyway and still doing fine versus infantry. Kinda forces you to to go boring 4 rifle captain stuart every game but then you are at the mercy of snipers or you can try an aaht after m20 but then you have too much of your army in two light vehicles that are paper and get rekt by paks that you don't know where they will be. At least USF has snares with vet though!
I mean comeon its like 200/15 or something for fucksake, way too cheap!
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