How to beat super-aggressive Ostheer

Recently, I've been coming across an Ostheer strat in my Brit games which I'm at a loss for how do deal with. I wanted to know if anyone had any advice.

Basically, the Ost player is very aggressive and targets my cut-off with a Gren/Sniper/MG combo which Tommies can't really deal with, and uses a Pio squad or two to cap his own side of the map. He then techs up as fast as possible to get a 222 out very early, followed usually by another 222 straight away. To make matters worse, some Ost players have realised Brit players don't have access to a minesweeper in the very early game, and have been spending their early munis on S-minefields on vital points like fuel point, cut-off e.t.c.

I have no idea how best to counter this. It feels like there are just too many different threats that all require different counters. I need a sniper of my own to threaten his and take out the MG team, I need Sappers to clear mines and I need an AT gun to prepare for the 222. When the Ost player techs fast, waiting for an AEC just doesn't feel like an option since it comes out too late. How do I deal with this kind of thing? It feels like against good sniper micro there's nothing to do but try and avoid the area of the map where the sniper is, but this lets the Ost player take whatever part of the map he wants, even if that means my cut-off.

Ah yes the one massive flaw in the UKF faction. The fact that they get absolutely shit on by aggressive early games. If you lose your AEC against 222 stacking you've pretty much lost the game because Piats are so fucking awful.

Personally I've tried going MG -> IS -> MG as my opening build to combat aggressive options then hold out until an AEC so I can combat 222s. If you have Mobile Assault that helps as you can put the Flamethrowers to use to make up for IS being not that great.

Sounds like a good question for DevM of he's still around.

S-mines are a real problem early game, particularly on some maps where your cutoff is also on your retreat path. Angoville south for instance, I've had S-mines placed on the northern cutoff which can't be ignored as the strat point, VP and munitions further north can't be contested without retreating squads through them.

Had some success with a UC to counter MG42s and especially the Ostheer sniper early game, trouble is it is a pure sacrifice as they don't stand a chance against 222s. Can run them through minefields but a) you won't completely clear it b) UC takes heavy damage from S-mines c) UCs with heavy damage blow up the moment someone looks as them in the wrong way. Saying that all of Ostheer's early units bar maybe Grens are very vulnerable to a UC.

I've given up on AECs against Ostheer unless I pick tactical support to get recovery engineers and therefore some of my resources back ( which can also clear the minefields of course). 444 or 666 wins easily against an AEC. In fact they win easily against anything you can build until Cromwells.

I recommend vickers in buildings (straight of the bat, map depandent, but then again, one can contruct trenches)

Seeing as vickers in buildings will stop the mg42 and grenadiers, has a lower chance to get hit by snipers (and with vet 1, it becomes a big threat to said sniper) and the 222 has a hard time dealing with buildings anyway.

Counters exist in the form of the flame pio, but you should target that one first.

Hope this helps.

I don't have a sound strategy vs MG42 & Sniper & 222. However, I know the following:

1. You need to recognise the following strategic opportunity:
- A Vet1 Brit sniper is a hardcounter to 222's since he can snare them reliably
- By default, a Brit sniper will have a very dangerous time getting to Vet1 in time (countersniping, 222's can yolodive in base)
- However, killing the enemy sniper with your own sniper will get him Vet1 (or very close to it)
- Having cleared the enemy sniper, you can continue sniping against garrisons (Brit sniper never misses vs garrisoned squads)
- When the 222 comes out, you have the answer out (vs a crippled 222, you only need to supplement with PIATs or AT gun)

2. The performance of 222 is currently bugged vs infantry.

The 222 has 2 weapons, the autocannon (that goes *BOOM* *BOOM* *BOOM*), and the coaxial MG (that goes *RATATATATATA*).

The autocannon is crap vs infantry, and deals almost no damage vs infantry when they are garrisoned. Inversely, the MG absolutely shreds infantry, even they are garrisoned.

However, according to Miragefla, the MG has a horrible time tracking infantry (I think it has trouble aiming upwards).

Thus, if you put your infantry in a Trench, they will evaporate instantly. If you put your infantry on a 2-story building and the 222 starts aiming towards the upper story, they will survive for a few minutes.

In fact, given the right building, your sniper has a chance to outdamage the 222 before he dies (provided that both the 222 and the sniper are completely unsupported).

- Never retreat your sniper vs the 222, unless you have a backup plan (AT/PIATs or Mines covering the retreat path)
- Place your infantry in buildings (NOT TRENCHES) and see if the MG of the 222 can engage vs them. If the MG doesn't fire, you're safe. If the MG starts firing, then it's time to start dancing.

I thought the MG on the 222 was off centre ( 15 degrees rings a bell), hence shredded things at close range but constantly missed at medium? Could be wrong and would like to know for sure.

The main problem against 222s is the ease with which they can baserape you. UCs against the base defence guns ( particularly OKW) are a joke by comparison. Seem to recall seeing that the 25pdrs in base do have an unused AT role but basically Brits badly need a T1 snare or counter as 222s plus sniper can make the early game nigh on impossible without clairvoyance.

Sounds like a good question for DevM of he's still around.

Don't take this the wrong way, but when someone is complaining about aggressive Ost play with good sniper micro, DevM is more likely to be part of the problem than part of the solution.

Don't take this the wrong way, but when someone is complaining about aggressive Ost play with good sniper micro, DevM is more likely to be part of the problem than part of the solution.

Well I'm saying he knows what counters his tactic.

You could try special weapons regiment and see how those AT tommies work out. A rushed bofors can be pretty solid on some maps. These are just suggestions and don't reflect my opinion on the issue.

I still haven't really found the solution, and honestly I've pretty much given up on Brits in 1v1 as a result. I'm sure I'll come back to them after a while, but 222 rush every game is just so fucking boring.

My best tactic is to just try and hold onto early fuel, rush tech and get both a sniper and an RE squad. Then, try and nail the inevitable 222 with a mine. Most Ost players will be pretty aggressive with that thing to try and rush the sniper so it is sometimes possible to bait them over the mine, but overall still a pretty weak and inconsistent solution. Not to mention, even if you get the kill the second 222 will still be out long before AEC.

AT tommies kinda help, but not all that much. They can't really threaten a single 222 since they kill it pretty darn slow, and 2 222s just mow them down.

I still haven't really found the solution, and honestly I've pretty much given up on Brits in 1v1 as a result. I'm sure I'll come back to them after a while, but 222 rush every game is just so fucking boring.

My best tactic is to just try and hold onto early fuel, rush tech and get both a sniper and an RE squad. Then, try and nail the inevitable 222 with a mine. Most Ost players will be pretty aggressive with that thing to try and rush the sniper so it is sometimes possible to bait them over the mine, but overall still a pretty weak and inconsistent solution. Not to mention, even if you get the kill the second 222 will still be out long before AEC.

AT tommies kinda help, but not all that much. They can't really threaten a single 222 since they kill it pretty darn slow, and 2 222s just mow them down.

Quite frankly I think the 222 is just too good at the moment. Its dirt cheap, shits on light vehicles and many light tanks, doesn't really take damage from infantry and can just gun up to them in cover and chew them down also.

It was fine as it was but now with 320 hp it can take some AT hits and still have a good safety buffer to get away whereas before it would often be flirting with engine/gun damage criticals.

I'm having trouble against them as USF also. They really shut down the M20 (lt tier) so hard whilst being much cheaper than an m20 anyway and still doing fine versus infantry. Kinda forces you to to go boring 4 rifle captain stuart every game but then you are at the mercy of snipers or you can try an aaht after m20 but then you have too much of your army in two light vehicles that are paper and get rekt by paks that you don't know where they will be. At least USF has snares with vet though!

I mean comeon its like 200/15 or something for fucksake, way too cheap!

https://youtu.be/_WXwApviEd4?t=40m10s

Looks like even for top players, the same thing happens...

I guess maybe its a balance issue rather than a L2P issue? I kinda like that Tommies not having an AT snare makes the Brits a bit unique, but seems like given how good the 222 is and how quickly it can be out, Brits are really gonna struggle until there is something you can do to at least fend them off with Tommies.

It's AEC rush or bust with the Brits.

Well I'm saying he knows what counters his tactic.

I was joking. Besides, most of the good players don't come to this forum anymore so it's really unlikely that DevM would respond.

If you have watched Helpinghans play style. Build free sandbags for green cover. Then you can always win vs mg/grens. Against sniper if the enemy have it make your own sniper...

OP BASED POST

Holy Crap! Why didnt I think of this?!

Thanks OP, I will forever be using this strategy now.
It's gonna be GG Brits from here onwards

I was joking. Besides, most of the good players don't come to this forum anymore so it's really unlikely that DevM would respond.

Bren carrier is a solid option for getting your units out of suppression, pressuring the sniper and even backcapping with weak squads instead of reinforcing them.

For the 222 you really should get PIATs instead of the AT gun. With a bit of micro it's pretty easy to hit the 222 due to its huge model and wonky turning rate. (Anytime it rounds a corner it stops to a crawl.)




What I would recommend is 2 tommies and a bren, tech up and get a sapper and unlock weapon racks. PIAT distribution you have a few options, but I would suggest doing 1 per tommy so you don't reduce their combat effectiveness too much and have room for a bren later. Plus spreading out AT makes it much harder for your opponent to find a weak point to hit with their light vehicles. (Same principle applies with bazookas or panzerschrecks.)

After that you can do whatever.



Tactics still matter. Pressuring him so he can't attack you, or taking advantage of garrisons, are both reasonable options. The big takeaway here is "USE FUCKING PIATS" because people seem to forget them as an option entirely.

FYI, Bren Carrier ignores S-mine fields ))