Every faction sacrifices AI and manpower to get AT.... It's kind of a core compenent of the game.... |
this is right when u compare it in a buble and ignor all other unit from sov. they have high mobile early clown car, high dps penals with mini atombombs and 6model squads, have acces to eraly shocks with right doc, and can spam you away and this little maxim guys are very usefull ....when use right.
By used right you mean skipped entirely right? Because all of your examples funny enough have nothing to do with maxims.
"the maxim is great if you build the tech it's not in and use those units!" |
Your flawed thinking in that the su76 will hold off the enemy mediums all by itself, it won't. You need support. And it will do well in that regard. It's arguably better designed than the StuG because of that. It's part of your army not the whole damn thing... If you want a single 70 fuel TD to stop the enemy armour in its tracks you are sorely out of touch.
Also it's quite possible to not have a zis, not only possible but entirely meta. |
What i love most about maxim spammers is the free salvage... each maxim he makes means +5 fuel for me[/quote its literally worth more as scrap than it is as an mg....
The 6 man squad needs to be treated as a Soviet bonus (and reflected in price not performance) so that it is still possible to use as a non Soviet faction should you get the chance to cap one. |
If you look in my table - SU-76 still misses to axis mediums and don't ahve 100% chance to pen, while Stug always hit and always pen. And if you told about such "unusual strat", you can do the same witk OKW or even with OST (spam of mg-42 with pgresn with shrecks). Or 222 spam. 2 222 can kill 1 t-70 if you have enough micro to block his back.
I repeat again, if you trying compare stug and su-76 - result ALWAYS will be on stug side. SU-76 NEED changing of it role, NOT to be "soviet stug". SU have it's own hardcounter TD in T4. No need make 2 when 1 is enough.
How well does the StuG fare in ranges 51-60? Just curious. Making a claim like "ALWAYS on the stugs side in an assymetic design is pretty ballsy is all. So if you could follow up with stats at those ranges I'd be greatly pleased. |
A single su-76 can't even repel a panzer4. Allied mediums won't get a stug by directly charging at it, but with a panzer4 charging at a su76, if the player failed to snare pz4 and reverse in time, then su76 is detroyed. The axis player could kill su-76 by exchanging shots since su-76 has low hp.
And without a turret the terrible tracking system makes su-76 even harder to evade.
I can't agree with your opinion that current vanilla su-76 can hold off wehr t3 mediums. If that's the case, those good 1v1 players won't go straight for 2 zis guns when his opponent rush for ostwind.
I don't know if you know this but the su76 has 50 more range than a p4 and more mobility. If you are getting snared no amount reasonable buffs is going to make the su76 work for you. Yall are completely ignoring that it shoots out to 60 and almost never misses... LITERALLY ANY SUPPORT AT ALL GUYS THIS GAME IS ABOUT COMBINED ARMS... Or at least it's supposed to be... |
Ok lets think about a standard 1v1 game, in the most cases there a five squads affected by bolster upgrade and weapon rack.
And if you go for anvil usually its 2 churchills max.
So u can split the tech cost over all these units.
Boltser 150 Mp 35 Fuel, divided by 5 = 30Mp 7 Fuel per squad
Weapon Rack 150 MP 15 Fuel, divided by 5 = 30MP 3 Fuel per squad
Anvil 200 Mp 50 Fuel, divided by 3 = 67 Mp 17 Fuel
Reinforce sappers to get the 5th man = 26 Mp
Makes total cost for heavy sapper: 337 Mp 27 Fuel 60 Mun + additional 100 mun for double piats
And this units repairs still slower then Sturmpioneers and has worse combat performance
Slightly worse repairs but 25% more health, 2 at weapons and an lmg... A fully functional squad that can shoot from range with the lmg and defend against tanks with 2 piats and a snare.
You are certainly trying to make it seem like 8 pop 300mp sturms have it all arnt you? |
No it is not even reliable if you use it as an emergency td.
120 damage means it need to deal 6 penertrated shot to kill a panzer 4, consider that its penertration has been lowered to 180/170/160 the shot may deflect if luck isn't with you.
Its rof was toned down long ago, now its reload time is 3.9-4.4 so it needs at least 24 seconds to fire enough shots to deal with single panzer 4 alone.
You may argue that su-76 can't be the only AT unit on field, then assume that there is already a zis. In a 10 second window both zis and su-76 can fire 2 shots, that is 560 damage in total, able to get a stug but not a ost panzer 4. So how can you call it "good emergency unit"? In the same senario double zis will definely perform better.
And fausted su-76 can be killed by 2 tank shots, 3 shots if not fausted. Does zis-3 die of 3 panzer4 shots?
If su-76 means to be good emergency unit, it will need a health buff or damage/rof buff. Health to 560 / vanilla damage to 160, since it lacks turret. Remove the barrage and make it a soviet stug then, but that is absolutely not the design philosophy of it.
Perhaps you need an emergency Jagdtiger?
Emergency doesn't mean it's going to be as effective as AT you can get at your leisure. It's mobile enough that you should be able to back away from incoming doom (unlike with say a zis) and once you weather the storm you can make use of its barrage. It's a multirole assault gun, if you can't make use of it for what it is that's unfortunate for you but the unit already has a role.
StuG clone.... Jeeze... |
Then they should not have tried to make it like an axis mg without ap rounds.
The old maxim was mobile fast. But lacking in supression if any. But was suposed to be about dps. Its arc however so small inf could walk out of it with no model dropping.
It just added dps to cons wich was very very poor. And the maxim needed baby sitting.
Then they added supression. This combined with its mobility made it broken op. Its golden days. Replacing inf completly. And keeping new volks in check.
Now its mobility is severely nerfed and people have trauma,s that it could surpress.
If it could supress it wont be spammed imo, its mobility was gutted.
Maxim has replaced infantry since its inception because at no point in the game have cons really beeen in a position that it was worth getting them and/over a maxim when you just paid 160mp to unlock the maxim
But of an overhaul here but hear me out:
Cons become passively cheaper once a building is built but t1 and 2 become a 20mp more expensive
T1 makes cons a bit cheaper to reinforce to promote using them to supplement penals. Penals are in exchange made slightly more expensive per man
T2 gives cons a cover bonus that gives a bonus against suppressed units so that they might be used in conjunction with the maxim as dps. Maxim can be adjusted to be less independent |
That been said, i just realised that it's 6 years and we still don't know how suppression really works.
Big relic is supressing that info |