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upgraded volks lose to any upgraded allied main line infantry. If volks are used properly they will be cost efficient if you dont, they wont. OFc if you out micro your opponent you should be able to punch above ur weight, what do people want? volks to lose every single engagement no matter how good ur micro is ?
U people are ridiculous.
The only faction that may unfairly struggle vs volks is USF, but hopefully they will get some teching improvements to help them |
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Sturms should have ther STG's back ther far more effective as unit with them. Its funny how all the people saying mp40's are better are all mainly allied players |
You all seem to overlook that axis have counters to that right off the bat? OKW has ATG + fausts (after teching) and OST has fausts that work very well. I don't play OKW but as OST I usually don't have problems with clown cars or UC. I just keep a gren squad close to MG since they always come for it and faust the car.
And it's not even close to being as effective as flame halftrack.
At the same time USF has nothing until they tech to ATG or to flacktrack. UKF is the same. Only soviets can deal with Flame Halftrack immediately though not always optimally.
Anyway I think Flame Halftrack is in a good spot and maybe needs just a little tweaking because it is extremely effective against retreating squads.
Going ATG so early as OKW is suicide, Ostheer fausts are good counters to clown car but have a much harder time vs UC, whilst the clown car almost always fks OKW. USF doesn't have anything because they dont need anything against vehicles so early own except for kubel which a lone RE can deal with. |
I think the Comet should either get an armor or a +160 Hitpoints health buff.
Right now it's just way too fragile vs Panthers and AT guns which doesn't make the investment worth at all. It's just a pudding version of the Panther with phosphorus/smoke shells in live version.
isnt panther and AT guns SUPPOSED to counter the comet?
From a team game perspective, buffs to the comet is a nono, as having a non doc tank that will be effective against all targets will be op and usually those kind of tanks are limited to 1. Comet is most definitely more viable now with the panther armour nerf.
If the comet gets some sort of armour, health or main gun buff, ther would need to be corresponding nerf along with it (like the panther), probably its speed or something. |
It struggles the same way KV-1 does.
It does not mean it'll lose or come close to.
It means it has a very hard time actually penetrating and finishing it off.
Compare how long it takes for churchill to kill that OKW P4 vs a Comet vs OKW P4 and you will start getting the idea.
Churchill is damage sponge, not damage dealer, whoever believes churchills firepower is OP, can't handle T34 either.
Panther takes longer to Finnish off a t-34 compared to a jp4 vs a t-34. Conclusion = Panther sucks vs t34. sick logic u got ther mate
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DPS against what also matters.
Churchill struggles against OKW P4 and vet2 ost P4.
It can't go up against anything bigger frontally and I don't need to say that won't be flanking anything with it.
Churchill does not struggle vs OKW panzer 4 and ostheer vet 2 panzer 4, stop spreading crap from your backside |
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ummmm why r ppl acting as if mortar doesn't exist????.
Personally, i think USF should have never got the mortar and rifles should have kept ther smoke.
AND ostheer is the most munition starved faction out of all |
How is the RE unattractive? They match the combat effectiveness of pios and pios have 3 special abilities as well better sight, tellers, and mg bunkers. So if RE suck then pios suck. Stugs however are no longer popular after the RoF nerf IN ADDITION to the pop cap nerf (which the SU76 didn't get) nor did the abilities of the Su76 get nerfed as hard as stug twp. Most players rather get pak + p4 than stug + ostwind/pgrens.
on top of that many players double zook equip ther echelons making an effective anti-tank squad. |
Decided to just make a general post that contains my responses to points people have raised (and because I don't quite know how to multiquote).
Pgrens actually don't have smoke grenades. That change was tested on one of the balance previews but didn't make it through to live.
Honestly, 1x stg and 3x kars would lead to a pretty weak unit; offensively weaker than vanilla grens probably. That's just not an option considering how much more they cost. Beyond that, "flavor" infantry (the kind that you only toss one of into your build) doesn't really work too well with a generalist profile unless they're really strong generalists - like falls. Even then, falls only work because they're so strong that they essentially function as OKW's mid game long range infantry.
On a lot of Vipper's points, the answer is essentially #scope. That word isn't really tossed around in our discussions, obviously, but the restriction is still essentially there. We're allowed to touch 2 commanders from each faction and basically nothing else. Obviously Relic has made exceptions to that rule (mobi def, brit snares), but those things aren't really open discussions and stuff we can negotiate on, it's more that Relic decides when to put those changes on the board.
Storms already have first aid kits at vet 1.
For all the people remarking on 4 man close range squads not working, I point to commandos. Commandos were previously 4 men, and given that storms have MUCH better vet than commandos, vet 3 storms essentially catch up to current vet 3 commandos in durability.
4x AT rifles would probably function similarly. I guess it would be extremely reliable light AT as opposed to schrecks which can miss, but I think it would be a nerf to the squad in both AI and AT (depending on numbers of course). Personally, I dont think storms should have even had the panzerschreck upgrade to begin with, but thats besides the point.
Edit (I usually edit without saying anything unless my post has already been seen): the doctrine we're reworking doesnt have an officer callin (unless I missed something).
how about when u upgarde thge stg's, one or two of them in the IR STG variant.
Ill rather leave them as it is, then go with the proposed mp44 changes, which imo are horrific |
There are many ways to look at it, I'm sure we've already touched on all of them but there are many ways to change Sturm pios and yes theres not doubt in my mind that they can win early engagements that oftentimes are punishing in comparison to cost of the strumpio.
Ways to adjust Strumpios
- Change their base MP cost
- Put STGs behind a muni wall or put 2 extra behind a muni wall
- Give their STG its own profile
- Increase other factions starting MP
Their vet in my opinion is fine but we also need to considar that if we used an upgrade to STGs or something like that is that it would take their inventory slots which is okay as you have to choose utility / combat roles for them. That said the MP40 isn't a bad gun and can still be effective close range and they would still keep 2 stgs for early game.
I think changing faction starting MP would be the last thing to do really, that falls more under the line of game balance. I mean USF REs already suck thats easy to see, Brit RS nerf rly hit them hard, Soviet Penals are priced the same as strumpios but often time get dabbed on by strums. Sure there are many other factors to include in the example above such as the distance the sturms are at and yea we know just sit at range and fight strums but remember OKW volks are killers at range so what do factions like USF do? just sit and die I guess??
Anyhow hopefully we can work this out, in the long run I don't think sturms need that big of a change but their DPS should come down for the early game in some sort of manner.
ofc u dont wna change ther vet cuz its hard to achieve and sucks too. U need to keep ur RE's at distance were sturmpioners cant do shit, same with brits inf, Penals tear them apart and can even do so at close range.
This is about sturms starting engagements and now u wna bring volks too, riflemen can still do decently well against volks at long range, and all u need to do is close the gap if you want to win the engagement. ANd once you start vetting up and upgrading riflemen will TEAR volks apart at all ranges.
+ you also now want their combat role to become a choice? so you have to choose between, STG's, sweepers or Anti tank, lol. |
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