Profile of Vipper

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The army OP was talking about was 2 mg 2 at, and Katitof brought up mortars, you are right building a mortar that early for the first OKW mg would be to early since it will not come out until after 1st truck but what about against OST? You will not get reliable wipes to prevent the build which is understandable.

He is saying to build mortar to counter the build which is pretty unreliable for all factions.

Thanks for clarifying.

The ability seems to behave like FMR ingame. I assume that your source is outdated. I like to test it by myself when I see outdated data. Units stop moving faster when getting under fire clearly in current patch. I strongly question what you call a fact here. Are you playing a different game or are you not testing it?



I used the term "pure fact" to get away from your mixing of facts with perspective/assumption that you mark as facts. You just did it again this time with outdated data you can't be sure off. Normally a fact should be a pure fact already. So please put "pure fact" on a level with a "fact" as it should be.



I see what you ar doing here. It is a derail from my original matter about FMR into a wide open discussion about the strength of a commander that leads to nothing. Can you see that too? I won't follow that bait. Lets get back to FMR please.


You corrected what I was complaining about. Perfect, nothing more to complain. Yeah, like that it is what I call a fact too.

PLS give it rest with "fact" thing you have started and your focus on trying to prove me wrong, else I will be forced to continue answering in similar manner.

The bonus speed bonus Assault and FMR are simply different one sprint that a speed boost.
If in your opinion some how an undocumented change has taken place the infantries lose their speed bonus under fire I suggest you make a video about and post in bugs.

I feel like explaining this again and again. I'll do once more just for you:

Abilities can be similar or even the same when it comes to effect, timing and cost. That is what you call "inline". Still they can perform way better at some factions than at others becasue factions are asymmetrical. That is what I call unbalanced or not inline in true performance.

That is an accurate description but that does not mean that ability is bad that synergies better with certain unit or faction. So far you have been arguing that the ability is "bad". If we can agree that ability is inline with other similar abilities than what you are suggesting that this ability should be replaced by another better suited for shock troops and PTRS Penals.

If you use such an ability as FMR on an army that has a lot of long ranged infantry for example like Obers with LMG or IS with double Bren the ability is perfect. Why? You can use the sprint to quickly reposition behind the front line and once you get under fire at about 30-40 range you are at your most efficient combat range already when it comes to trading damage effectively. You make full use of sprint and you make full use of the combat boni once you get under fire. Take cover, fire back and profit.

That is accurate but a long range attack is far less dangerous because the fight takes longer and the enemy can react and retreat if he need to safely.

The sprint give a slight edge in initial placing and that is it.

If you use such an ability as FMR on an army which infantry is focused on medium to close combat, you can quickly reposition behind the lines too, but once you get under fire at 30-40 range you are still far away from your most efficient combat range. These units benefit far less.

Now ask yourself should one be able to attack with a blob of close quarter units frontally through open ground and because he press an ability?

Imo he should not.

So you just can't put standardized abilities in each faction if you have asymmetrical faction design.

One can compare and standardize abilities taking into account each faction design.
Shock troops is not the only unit available to Soviets.

Originally FMR and VA were far more different, because they were made for different factions. FMR gave you a strong timed close assault and a weakening afterwards. That fitted the faction/commander design very well.

PLS provide the stat for FMR and VA at the time that made them so different.

Keep in mind that there was a time that Both KV-1 and B-4 where not that great so the commander was not that popular.

FMR should focus on movement for infantry to strengthen the ability to close in.

That would make an ability that useful for all units, useful only for Shock troops (AT satchel Penal)

VA and AO should focus more on accuracy/reload/cooldown to give an advantage at dps at long to medium ranges.

I am not sure why in your opinion AO should work different from FMR since it available with commandos that are also CQC units.

Again: Assault Operations (global Commandos doctrine ability for 6 CPs). I tried it multiple times. They stop moving once getting under fire and starting returning fire while moving at normal speed (as they would do without the ability). Their speed before getting under fire looks like FMR, I assume they are sprinting too. Not sure what you want to tell me here. Im pretty confident it is a FACT that I'm right about it [fact]. So it remains to be very funny for me.

Assault Operations was like you tell me once ago, but it seems it got patched like the other similar abilities [assumption].

Name: "Assault"
Duration: 45 Seconds
Cost: 70 Munitions

+15% accuracy.
+25% speed and can fire on the move.
Typhoon aircraft will recon across the adjacent, or front-line, sectors to your territory points.
The amount of aircraft depends on how many front-line sectors you own.
source:
https://www.coh2.org/guides/88945/the-coh2-ability-guide-mark-2-0#2667


Name: "For Mother Russia!"
Duration: 45 Seconds
Cost: 70 Munitions
+50% accuracy.
Squads will sprint.
+50% accuracy.
+25% accuracy.

source:
https://www.coh2.org/guides/88945/the-coh2-ability-guide-mark-2-0#2667

The guide is not updated to last patch that does not matter because the moving bonus has not changed.

Fact:
Bonuses for FMR is sprint, for AO a speed bonus and the ability to fire on the move.
In sort the are different.

Perfect suggestion. Imo start by yourself please and do that from now on. For example "Imo this is false." That is way better than "False" [perspective]. Thx.


Since you are always seem to only read the last post [perspective] I will repeat one of my recent posts that you should have read because you reacted directly to that post. I can understand that it is hard to keep track if you are posting at so many threads at the same time. This is a personal service just for you:


There is no way I was talking about a single Ranger squad with Thompsons and elite Zooks. I was talking about multiple Rangers (some with Thompsons/some with elite Zooks] in comparison to Penals + Shock Troops, that are multiple squads too. You are always assuming the worst out of my sentences without context to my earlier postings and derailing the thread by doing so [perspective/assumption].


Lets show you what I mean, when you are so absolutely about facts and false/incorrect.
In the above sentence the only pure fact is that the commander is popular, and thats even only true if you add popular at commander layout. You just don't know how often it gets picked, I do neither. It is a fact too that it is more popular in 2vs2 and above regarding commander layout than in 1vs1. The complete first and middle part of your sentence marked as a fact is mixed with your assumptions/perspective already. You are way to absolute while mixing assumptions and perspective in your posts [perspective].

It is unclear to me how you use the term "pure fact" so pls clarify what you mean.

"The ability is inline if not better than other similar abilities"

Pls provide you arguments the ability is weaker than other abilities of each class if you disagree with my claim.

"and the commander is strong"
Commander has KV-1 a very strong Tank
Commander has B-4 which is considered to be op and probably will be changed
Commander has Shock troops one of the strongest Soviet infatry

Pls provide you arguments the commander is weaker than other commanders if you disagree with my claim.

"and popular. (FACT)"

Counter tactics stat from July 22-28 stats:

1vs1 added in load-out 218 times 7 most popular
2vs2 added in load-out 1132 times 4 most popular
3vs3 added in load-out 761 times 4 most popular
4vs4 added in load-out 3542 times 4 most popular

source:
https://coh2stats.com/stats/week/1616371200/4v4/soviet?statsSource=all

Fact:
The commander is popular even if one does not know exactly how many times it was picked.

Being popular and been used the most are two different things.

The fact that it so common in load-out across all modes means that is popular even if it not picked every time.

Imo this way of debating is not very helpful so lets try to avoid, pls focus more on the topic of "For Mother Russia" and less in repeating the "derail" mantra. If in your opinion something I posted is not relevant pls be specific about.

If you think it sounds like a rant this is just an interpretation of you that I want to reject.


If you not take the time to read all my posts I can't help you, because the things you said here are pretty clear. They are not affected by the same problem because they are far more suited for long range combat.

And an attack from long range is simply less effective than an attack at close range since it gives the defender the time to react.

And if you want this debate to move forward PLS be specific and explain which abilities and units you are talking about because general comment do not say much.

Assault operation: I talked about a movement bonus multiple times here. Units with Assault Operation get a movement bonus which ends if under fire, just the same mechanic like FMR, VA or Radio silence.

That is false.

The mechanism is not the same, units move slightly faster and fire on the move, the do not sprint.

The speed boost does not stop if they come under fire.

At least three out of four of your "false"/"incorrect" statements happen because you don't take the time to read correctly or make assumptions.

Then explain specifically which and why.

Please don't confuse your assumptions / your perspective with facts. Thx.

I don't. There is opinion and there is fact. For instance you were wrong about other similar abilities not have spring cancel when under fire and that is a fact and not an opinion.

You are welcomed.

That are your assumptions again. Don't try to interpret how I'm playing. Furhermore that doesn't work with multiple Rangers (Thompsons and elite Zooks plus Cover to Cover) vs a halfway decent opponent, so why should it work with Penals and Shock troops?


Just no, because faction design wasn't considered.

Yes it was an assumption but one based on the fact that through out this debate you focusing on Shock troops and PTRS Penal and I do not see denying it.

Cover to Cover does not provide any offensive bonus, is an area ability and it does not come with AT satchels.

The sprint should change to also be cancel when under fire.

Thanks for summarizing in your two posts. Yeah it is simply totally dumb that every pintle, every shooting crewman or even PAK/TD hit will stop the sprint, even if dealing next to no damage.

And yeah OKW and Brits with similar commander abilities are not impacted by the same problem.

This sound like a rant that is false.

OKW Unit under valiant assault/for the father land/radio silence ARE impacted since they will also stop when under fire.

Unit with assault operation do not get sprint.

In addition none of these abilities provide offensive bonuses to support weapons. That ability is fine.

That is the problem of simple standardization not fitting unit composition.

Again incorrect.

Maybe it does not fit your "unit composition" of spamming Shock troops and PTRS Penal and expecting to overrun both enemy infatry and vehicles by attacking frontally using FMR but that is actually an improvement in game play because such tactics should not be promoted.

"working as intended?"
Yes it is