too complex for them, see how the butcher the pak and scott on the same patch to become redundant units.
Yea the MOD team are not that clever because double pack howizter was such a nice meta and they ruined it. |
OST has basically all the big exceptions, with the leFH being the biggest one.
The Walking Stuka does minor FF, as does the Panzerwerfer. Seriously, Pwerfer your MG next time someone rushes it and it'll walk away.
Off-maps have full Friendly Fire to my understanding
Interestingly, the UKF Base Howis count as off map, not on map and as such have full FF. I've wiped a few of my own squads with those 25 lber rounds. That's how I ended up digging up the stats you now have.
FF should be standardized. Either let us charge through the fire, or make FF a real threat. The issue is, on-map artillery is already standardized against FF and off-map artillery is standardized with FF. Mostly. That would make the game more consistent.
I'd advocate FULL DAMAGE. Bombs don't have an allegiance. Don't forget that Grenades ALSO deal minor to negligible FF.
No they do not, use the 240mm USF barrage and see.
UKF base barrage used to have minimal FF but was patched.
Glad to see that we that FF be standardized.
Full damage would be an excess imo that would only be useful to people who attack team member base. |
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Assault no longer provides a speed boost as original designed and allowing to fire on the move. It now provides a sprint instead:
Name: "Assault"
Duration: 45 Seconds
Cost: 70 Munitions
+15% accuracy.
+25% speed and can fire on the move.
Typhoon aircraft will recon across the adjacent, or front-line, sectors to your territory points.
The amount of aircraft depends on how many front-line sectors you own.
Credit for identifying bug to "general_gawain"
In addition Valiant assault and FRM Russia now cost the same and Assault cost more because it provide reckon planes but FRM Russia also buffs support weapon making Valiant assault the lest cost efficient ability. |
Yeah I've been blown up by teammates who didn't think carefully about their LEFH 18 targets, ppl you do an AT with even. A consistency issue that should be fixed, Damage friendly near 80 is a squad gone within 2 distance units. I did not know the other arty pieces had such low friendly damage, but explains a lot of what I thought was 'suicidal' pushes through their own shells.
Should we be looking at increasing friendly fire damage across the table or just reducing one? Not a fan personally of ppl ignoring huge shells going off next to them but gameplay is gameplay.
Increasing if you ask me, I agree with you. |
Thx for the hint with the different animations. Now its absolutely clear to me that units under effect of Assault sprint too. I put Valiant Assault, Radio Silence, For mother Russia and Assault in my commander ability layout with Cheatmod and used them one after another. Its always the same animation and same speed.
Fact: Assault uses out of combat sprint like the other abilities. Tested it multiple times and watched speed and animation, its 100% the same.
So just don't beat about the bush and get over it. Just be more cautios the next time you call out for something beeing false/incorrect. That would help. Thx.
Great you found a bug, well done.
Assault was not meant to work with a sprint, now pls report it the bug section.
A bug does not change the fact the sprint is not the same a speed boost or that Assault/FMR are designed to give different movement bonuses. Can you move on now?
I just want to repeat myself, since I never said that there is no benefit for CQC units at all, because that is the impression your remark creates:
Absolutely
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the current jackson is a product of neglecting the rest of the roster and faction design.
I would add and product of unreversed changes, example:
M36 designed as a "kiter"
M36 Jackson
Developer Comments: Increased LOS to allow the M36 to better kite, locate and hunt enemy armor without boosting its firepower any further.
LOS from 35 to 40
Tank acceleration increased from 2.5 to 3
Veterancy 2 sight radius bonus changed from 30% to add 5
Then it was redesigned and had a firepower boost as with normal HP but the boosted acceleration remained (LOS was removed).
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Most on map weapons friendly fire at 5%, I believe B4 has that. Classically, i intentionally charge through my own barrages due to this. Theres a handful of weird exceptions though.
howitzer_105mm_le_fh18_artillery_mp
friendly damage 50% of damage
m1937_152mm_ml_20_artillery_mp
friendly damage 5 HP
4_howitzer_artillery_commander_mp (old not updated)
friendly fire 16 HP
sexton_spg_squad_mp
friendly fire 14 HP
m7b1_priest_squad_mp
Friendly fire 5 HP
Do you play mostly allies?
In an case this friendly damage should be increased. |
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Another thing that should be look at imo is the friendly damage of the B4 that seem to be set very low. Friendly squads can get hit by multiple hits and not suffer any loses. |
Is it that hard to understand that they don't shoot while moving faster (sprinting)? They simply stop sprinting move normaly and shoot since their out of combat sprint get canceled when in combat. Assault is no exception, it works like FMR, VA, Radio silence...
I don't know what is so hard about that to just saying that the "false" was to hasty and without enough background knowledge. Move on if you can't just say something that simple, I won't bother you again.
"Is it that hard to understand that" sprinting and moving faster are not the same thing?
Entities even use different animation when they sprint.
You seem to really need it:
FMR infantry: +0.5 armor, +50% accuracy, squads will sprint.
FMR weapon teams: +0.5 armor, +25% accuracy to AT guns, Mortars, and all artillery.
+50% accuracy to HMG's
VA infantry: All infantry on the map will sprint. (You forgot the 25% accuracy bonus)
VA weapon teams: no effect
Source: Ability guide 1.0
https://www.coh2.org/guides/52852/the-coh2-ability-guide
As you see FMR was far better than VA. Especially the +0.5 armor was a huge bonus.
It still is, it affect support weapons also.
Yes, we agree about that. While removal of B4 precision strike was necessary and the current B4 is a lot better designed, Imo standardization of FMR is a worse design, because it doesn't take into account the soviet faction design which leans to close/mid combat.
The ability work fine for mid units, it even work fine for CQC units.
They simply can not sprint across open ground and attack frontally any more, but that does not mean that all do not benefit from it.
We already were at this point before. Ability is fine if you compare it on paper, ability is not fine if you look at faction design, unit composition and asymmetry. What is fine for one faction isn't necessarily for another. I do think we won't get any closer at this point.
We have to agree to disagree.
The ability work fine for the faction design.
Just because it was to used to be an OP combination with Shock troops it does not mean that it some how bad. |
You were the one who hammered every second argument directly with false or incorrect. It was my intention to show you that this behaviour is hasty and not helpful in a discussion.
It does not matter who started (I can argue you started...), once more pls simply quite it.
I don't think its a bug since it fits the standardization of all other similar abilities, maybe the patch note was forgotten. What should i do to proof it to you? I just go ingame start CoH2 in Cheatmode, spawn some AI units and some own units about 80 range further, activate Assault and try to move past the enemy troops with move order. Every time the enemy shots at my troops they fall back in normal move. This happens to Commandos with hold fire too, they start moving normally (without shooting on hold fire) once getting under fire. This is totally clear to me and evrybody who plays Commando doctrine on a regular basis.
Additionally the movement bonus of Assault is a lot more than +0,25, I assume it is sprinting.
It is not sprinting. Unit that sprint do not fire.
Absolutely. I would say that is better suited for soviet infantry lineup, since cons are not good at long range either.
I don't know the exact old stats of both abilities, but I remember the discussions about FMR beeing so much better than VA initated by Wehrmacht players. FMR was clearly stronger while active and was made for direct combat assault, it had an additional aftermath that weakend all soviet troops.
If you do not have the exact stat pls do not bring thing up the simply confuse the debate.
The far DPS of Penal and conscripts is good especially once vetted.
Keep in mind there was a time that KV-1 was not great but FMR Shock troops rocked enemy infantry away and B4 with Vet1 precision strike was a beast (hitting anything in range with pinpoint accuracy). The original Counterattack commander clearly beats its current incarnation. Current B4 makes it fun playing again, but with nerf to FMR its still nowhere near the original one [perspective].
The combination of the extra damage from FMR and the B4 was broken. The commander might had been stronger at some point but the design was worse. I think we can agree that we want better design not worse.
Ironically you brought up a very good example for factional asymmetry maing an similar ability strong or weak. First of all Brits doing good with current implementation of Assault giving out of combat sprint and boni in combat. Reasons: It greatly benefits the typical IS double Bren build and Commandos with Brens are doing fine too. But in the end it also benefits the CQC Commandos without Brens. Instead of having only +25% move they now double their move out of combat. This leads to the situation that they can sprint undetected under the nose of the enemy. Just camouflage them, set them on hold fire and you can cover double the distance to the next cover without getting spotted. Perfect.
Thats the reason why sprinting out of combat is way better than +25% move (in and out combat) for Commandos and why +25% move (in and out combat) is way better for Shock Troops than sprinting out of combat -> Factional asymmetrie.
You can use ST44 ober and radio silence if you like.
The change effect all faction that use CQQ units not just Soviet.
My point are:
The change was implement for most abilities of the same
FMR is inline with other similar abilities
The commander is solid
Now if in your opinion Soviet need a commander with an ability similar to cover for CQC, my suggestion would be an ""infatry" oriented commander that did not come with Armor/Arty. |
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