Yes because 5 man grenadier squads for 240 mp will solve absolutely every problem
Grens are cheap and cost effective, and that's not good enough?
IS cost just as much and are 2 MP cheaper to reinforce
riflemen cost 40 more to produce but completly wreck grens at all ranes, especially with vet and are cheaper to reinforce as well |
...
Which leads us to the core problem of this thread: The Panther sucks at doing what it was meant to excel at. ...
that perfectly sums up part of what i was trying to communicate with this thread.
personally, think the panthers low DPS is the issue here. Armor is excellent at 320 front, penetration is excellent, speed and accelaration appropriate, but the fire-rate too low. the panther fires every 7.38 seconds.
performance simply doesn't quite match the price-tag. a 175 fuel TD is supposed to wreck every other non-TD tank, only bowing to the heavies of call-ins(IS-2, pershing, ISU) |
True on every bit, and the OKW panther isn't that bad in AI if you compare it to the Ostheer panther.
OKW:
OSTHEER:
as we can see, their top gunners do have the same DPS, their combined (avg(far + near)) hull-mg DPS is pretty much the same and the OKW panthers coaxial mg is higher, but nothing to write home about.
i dont think these stats warrant the implication the OKW panther is a good or even decent AI tank or has particularly better AI capabilities compared to his OST-brother
EDIT: i just noticed the OKW panther has more DPS at close range, what the hell? |
doctrinal?
The OKW Panther has Blitzkrieg at Vet 1. Panzer Tactician is on most of Ostheer's strongest commanders at 2 CP.
the fact that its indeed a very strong OST commander doesnt change it being a doctrinal ability.
nobody would claim USF has such strong late game with the pershing and rangers, dismissing the fact these are doctrinal units as well, even though heavy cavalary is at the moment probably a no-brain pick for most US players |
How tank with better penetration and better armor can loose to tank with worse pen and worse armor? Really how.
the comet's gun fires faster and neither tank has 100% penetration chance against the other, even at close range |
1- Price of a unit is the one listed, not the one with "convertion". It matters for timing and number field, not performance. (There's a reason OKW has cheapest teching)
2- You are doing the math wrong. You don't multiply by 33%. You divide by .66 or if you want to do exact maths .72 or .7
.72 is for a 50/50 resource distribution. Even if you control 100% of the map, it doesn't go lower than .69
3- PV RoF is 7.5s and i guess the comet is 6.5 or 6.4
4- Panther vs Comet at vet0 is basically RNG based.
5- People underestimate DPS coming from the 3 MGs on the tanks. Main gun shells is not all that matters.
rare satisfying answer, good arguments alright, still, i feel the panther is slighty under-performing, but then again, it seems to be general consesus on this forum that OKW needs a buff/overhaul |
>calculating fuel penalty as "effective" fuel cost
>2015
>I seriously hope you guys don't do this.
feel free to write a short mathematical proof why my assumption is incorrect 0o
if tommorow, there'd be a new patch and USF got only 50% fuel income with vehicle costs staying exactly the same, wouldn't everyone here state the obvious, that the vehicles now cost twice as much fuel? |
Is the new meta to make new accounts just to make whiny x is OP threads
...
also, i'd like to state again, i'm in no way whining or thinking the match-up between these factions is broken or anything, i just dont agree with the panthers and comets respective stats considering their costs
this is my first account, im not whining, as stated |
so if okw had 5% of normal income and brits had 100 percent normal income, it would be still considered balanced? you'd still consider it cheaper even if OKW had 1 fuel/min and had to wait over 2 hours to build a panther? no? then where draw the line?
also, i'd like to state again, i'm in no way whining or thinking the match-up between these factions is broken or anything, i just dont agree with the panthers and comets respective stats considering their costs |
...and Smoke.
doctrinal
asymmetric balance anyone? if you want panther vs panther play custom mirror matches
my understanding of asymmetrical balancing would be two armies a,b with one having a unit that costs 300 that wins exactly against the 3 units of the other army costing 300 in total. thats asymmetrical balance to me. not one of the 3 units costing 100 beating the unit for 300 which is allegedly justfied because Army A gets a good counter to that in late game.
i dont want both units to cost the same while having the same performance i want the more expensive one to counter a unit that is cheaper and it is supposed to counter, is that really so hard to understand?
We an make the "Why does this (insert unit) lose to (insert unit)" argument ALL BLOODY DAY MATE. M3 cars have gone 2 years without thier original desgin concept...
i'm not here to cure cancer and save little children in africa, if you have a problem with the m3, make a thread, this thread is about the panther - comet matchup.
also me being told this conversation is unjustified because other units underperform in your opinion is like a victim of burglarly being told to shut up just because someone in another part of the city just got mugged |
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