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I'd love me a Hummel, Nashorn, Flak 36, M18 Hellcat, Panzer III and basically a crap ton of other vehicles from CoH and it's mods but sadly we are where we are and we work with what we have so no point in derailing the topic with this.
OKW pay a steep price for the KT but at the same time it's not doctrinal so it cannot be made as effective as a doctrinal unit, however many paywalls you put it behind with which I agree.
Simplest thing that could be probably done is to shove it in a doctrine and shuffle around the rest of the OKW Heavies (Command Panther, JT, Sturmtiger and maybe even the Tiger, if it fits).
Special Operations and Breakthrough are in need of a revamp anyhow, Elite Armor could sustain a simple replacement for it's Sturmtiger, same goes for Strategic Reserves, KT would probably fit in more with the theme than the Tiger anyhow.
Then a simple look at the rest of the balance of the Army would be needed and everybody would be happy, OKW might not have so much crappy team weapons anymore, KT would be good and doctrinal and not as often seen (in team games at least). |
The main reason in my eyes is that the 'games as a service' bullshit that is running wild in the industry at the momentonly works if you build up enough hype by either a big marketing machinery or using an already established IP. Indie developers don't have any of that. There are also scammers in the Indie community, but in the triple A business there's next to no decent developer left
Agreed.
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I hope that CoH2 does not turn free to play. The player base won't grow. There were already two free giveaways, so everybody that is at least partially interested probably has the game, and basically none of them stayed for long. A FTP won't bring in new players, just more cheaters.
Also I hope that CoH3 does not go down the route of the same business model as CoH2. This game's additions, be it commanders or new factions, were plain broken at release to make people buy them. And now, years later, balance team still has to fix units because of it. It's okay to pay money for real expansions, but then I want them to be implemented correctly and not damage basically the rest of the game. Otherwise I can't play the game I paid for for several months until relic patched it back into a somewhat balanced state.
I know the strategy market is not the most profitable anymore. I'm willing to pay a bit extra if I know that the dev team handles their stuff adequately, but I won't buy something that I lnow is going to be broken later down the line.
And also the supply system, where you can earn stuff for 'free', so you would not have to pay, is a bad joke and only there to give an illusion that you couls earn the game's whole content by just playing it.
If I see something like this implemented in AoE4 or CoH3, I'm not gonna buy it until I get the whole bundle 5 years later for 10 Euros.
The only dev teams that handle their stuff adequately (as possible) from what I've noticed recently is only the Indie ones. So don't expect any triple A devs be on the same level of communication and listening as them.
They cannot hide behind corporate shenanigans and are directly accountable for their stuff, no Publisher bullshittery is possible there.
That's why I'm hoping that Iron Harvest will succeed and show Relic how a proper game is really done today but sadly seeing as they're also aiming for consoles and have chosen the Unity engine, I'm not so sure about it anymore.
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Historically speaking, there were only around 500 KTs produced, so us seeing more King Tigers than Tigers, of which there were around 1300 and something produced, almost 3 times the amount, even in 1944, is very odd.
Balance and gameplay/design wise, it balances out the late game I suppose altho the OKW would probably be fine even without it non-doctrinally, they still have the better Panzer IV H and Panther compared to the Ostheer.
Problem is as already mentioned the OKW and it's commanders being designed around having the KT as a non-doctrinal unit, so if you take it out now you will need to stick it in 1 or 2 doctrines since there are not a lot to go around in terms of theme.
If that happens tho I think a look at the OKW support weapons might be in order then since they're underperforming compared to others.
The alternative is that all Armies get their heavy tank non doctrinally.
The Ostheer would get the Tiger after all BPs have been researched for example and the last (2?) tier buildings have been built, same with the Soviets with their KV1 which is not even present in that many doctrines to be a problem. UKF would be as it is, USF could get their Pershing then in the same way or something.
I think the replacement for these units then would be pretty easy, King Tiger would replace the Tiger in most of the Ost doctrines, IS-2 for the KV1 replacement, E8 for the USF replacement and so on.
Of course that would then even out the playing field but would probably cause some balance concerns and the "OMG YOU'RE MAKING THEM TOO SIMILAR!11!!" crowd would probably get a heart attack but I think it's doable. |
I think brumbär could also work exquisitly well in breaktrough, but crowd of "u make factions too simular" might not really like that
Or StuG III E, there are even announcer voice lines for a StuG and Forward HQ thingy for the neutral structures. |
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Interesting, something is brewing.
Maybe they'll pull another AoE4/DoW3 and just announce CoH3 with a teaser trailer and not release any other details or gameplay on purpose and go silent for months on end and expect people to just be hyped which is obviously not going to work but it is Relic...
At least that's what me thinks due to past experience. |
I'd say it should be treated like armoured assault tacics from soviet. No early game assets but great lategame. Also i am not really fan of commanders that just are full of unlocked units as they feel cheap way of forcing new units into composition. Id say ez 8 and pershing should stay, but halftrack rifles and greyhound should be replaced with some more supportive abilities.
I designed it to be a sort of hybrid between that and the USF Mech Company (heavily focused on vehicles) but at the cost of any doctrinal support like I said.
Armored Rifles' CP count here (2) is just for show really, I imagine it hitting the field at the same time as the M8 and Combined Arms, so early game will still be as normal as other USF builds, mid game is where if you start losing units and can afford it you can go the mechanized route, late game is where you get the Pershing and E8s.
It's really more of a team game commander tho, not really something meant for 1v1 obviously. Like I said USF feel rather really lacking in team game compositions because they are mostly dictated by heavy armor and they don't have that or if they do they're separate and in not as "meta" commanders (Rifle and Heavy Cav Co.) |
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Agreed.
Smartie also brought up Festung Support on my topic and suggested the addition of the Forward Supply Station and 12cm Granatwerfer 42 (renamed HM-38) to it which I think is a good idea, it would give the doctrine a new fresh and unique feel to it that no other commander has currently, plus the chance of Ostheer finally also getting a Forward Retreat Point similar to the Soviets, albeit doctrinal of course.
Soviet Defensive Tactics could get the MG nest and perhaps Widerstreit's trenches/anti-tank ditches, would fit Imo.
USF's Rifle Company has been discussed to death about a revamp, Riflemen Field Defenses, M1919A6s and so on have all been mentioned until now I imagine, several times even on multiple threads already so nothing new here.
OKW I think has a problem with the Special Operations doctrine being too juicy with the Command Panther and abusable flares so I think it will be up next for a revamp. As far as Breakthrough goes, Jagdtiger just belongs in it's own Panzerjäger doctrine if we're being honest here. Sturmtiger fits the theme of a "breakthrough" vehicle much more.
As far as the UKF goes, yeah pretty much. No idea what one could do with Advanced Emplacements, not really much options there as far as I'm aware, unless you convert it to more of a defensive commander instead of one focused solely on emplacements, like for example adding Standfast to it and Tank traps, no idea.
Special Weapons I have some ideas for, Hold the Line I have no idea on how to fix but you could replace it with crew repairs, or the M2 Flamethrower for the Sappers. Also a fun note here is that the UC was before the vehicle that dropped the weapons down, not the M3 Halftrack. Supply drop, M5 Stuart and M4A3 Sherman as additional lend-lease vehicles are also options. |
I personally would switch up either pershing or ez 8 off as greyhound and one of these 2 enough flavour for commander. Getting both would be kinda overkill. Also elite crews would sit perfectly into this vehicle heavy commander
I'd rather slit my wrists than include elite crews to be honest, the ability itself is not bad, anymore, but I still don't like it and would have much rather preferred they replaced it with something else entirely.
As far as the E8 and Pershing goes, both Sov and Ost have commanders with a heavy and premium medium tanks so I don't see the problem with the USF having one as well, I'd say they need heavy Armor the most and this commander is here for the exact purpose of fulfilling those (fetish) wishes.
M8 Greyhound I kinda agree that I'm not entirely happy with it but it was included in Steel Division and I wanted to see it in another commander than just Recon. |
Hungarian divisions may have had better equipment but in terms of sheer numbers the Romanians were much more important, they had way more divisions in the east.
Besides that i like some of the ideas you presented and would like to see them in a rework of Festung Support Commander:
• Forward Headquarter
• 120 mm Grw42
would fit perfectly to the theme.
I also agree that the LeIG18 would be an ideal addition to a "mountain warfare" doctrine. I thought hard about making this theme my official wehrmacht submission but was not satisfied with the results. I would love to work out something together with you and appreciate every feedback, especially how Gebirgsjäger (unit in wehr gamefiles) could work. The unit should not be a copy of JLI imo.
Finally heres my own interpretation of your USF Spearhead Company idea:
- Raid tactics (0CP)
- Cav Rifles (1CP)
- Recon plane (4 CP)
- P47 bombing run (12 CP)
- M26 Pershing Heavy Tank (9 CP, tied to major tech)
Yeah, like I said I based them mostly off of the Hungarians in Steel Division 2 as well as the fact that they were the only other known users of Tigers in order to include the KT in the doctrine. Plus the infantry unit can be whatever really, it started off as Blau Division Grenadiers for me, now it's Hungarians, it could be Croatians, whatever you wanna call em really.
Here's the visual pic for my Armored Spearhead Company as well, took me about 10 minutes to make:
I'm still not satisfied with the M8, might replace it later, but I think that's the pull of the commander, you have no indirect fire support other than the pack howitzer and M8 of course, so no M21 Mortar HT, Priest or Calliope or anything like that, but make up for it in Armored support and just being lightning fast. That's also something I think plagued the real US Armored divisions, since they were so far ahead of everyone else supply and support had trouble catching up with them.
Again, based on the 3rd US Armored Division "Spearhead" from Steel Division.
I'm thinking of doing the visual pic of the Panzerjäger idea we had going on here a bit later, just gotta gather up some assets before that.
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