Since green cover has been less abundant with the latest patch, I'm seeing MGs being used to a shockingly effective degree on certain maps. I saw elpern play a in which MGs were able to effectively the entirety of crucial map points and keep him out of controlling his cutoff, fuel, etc.
The biggest issue I believe is how effectively MGs are able to work independently, and the huge disparity in effort it takes to setting up an MG compared to dislodging one. MGs are on paper supposed to be support weapons, but nowadays it seems they are able to work pretty well with minimal support, sometimes none at all depending on the map. The biggest offenders in this case are the MG42 and .50 cal.
I think the solution to this would be increasing the pack-up time of all MGs. As it is, its far too easy for these units to kite grenades, mortars, etc. which gives them the potential to solo multiple infantry units if micro'd properly. |
I don't think Spios are bad, even with their limited engagement options, but it does feel extremely restrictive when you fight soviets with their 170mp CEs who can easily get 2 and spam mines while your one Spio has to minesweep, repair, protect the flak HT with its shrek and wire off cover.
I think I've gotten a pretty good understanding of OKW after getting to top 20 a week ago. If it were up to me to make some OKW changes, here's how I would approach it.
Sturmpioneers: I would buff their wire building speed. Currently it's way too slow, which makes them completely unable to wire off cover early game and makes it hard to wire off sandbags from enemy units. About 75% of current wire build time would be good.
Volksgrenadiers: I really don't like this unit whatsoever but I also see how oppressive its upgrade timing is. In general this unit suffers hard lategame, losing badly to every mainline and being unable to trade at any range, especially vs Guards who genocide them. Contrast Volks to Fusiliers who have an extra man, are much better on the move and have a real grenade. I think it would be fair to remove its ability to upgrade STGs in enemy territory, but I would absolutely add some combat veterancy buff at vet 4 or 5, either some RA or Accuracy to help them in the late game.
Mechanized HQ: Kind of an odd request, but I would like to see the repair pioneers made cheaper or even free. With how absurdly expensive and overworked Spios are, they're a necessity.
Raketenwerfer: This is the only anti tank gun without a gunshield and thus its survivability is quite abhorrent. I would absolutely add an RA bonus to balance it out, as it's way too easy to kill/injure its crew.
Obers/Hetzer: No reason why they should arrive without a full Schwerer tech. In my personal opinion it's absolute nonsense, they should require full T3 to be built.
Schwerer HQ: For the love of god, reduce the range of its main gun. It's game breaking. Game breaking. Why the fuck is OKW able to place that thing on their cutoff with 2 Leigs and just lock down a third of the map? It slows down the game so much and creates and oppressive safe zone for OKW. Super toxic that this can be done by a tier structure. Not a unit, a tier structure. Awful.
Pretty much agree with this. SPios are really potent on some maps but really meh on others, and I think having to a pay a premium for a repair unit that in some situations has good combat potential is bad design. I think SPios should be reduced to 200 manpower, start with an MP40/Kar98 or whatever, and then have an upgrade for an additional 100 MP that gives them their current combat package. That way you can have access to repairs without having to invest in an assault unit at the same time.
Agree with the Grens and Volks comparison too. Grens are a really great unit with vet and upgrades - they can melt anything with a good flank, the rifle grenade is so unpredictable and wonky that you can often get wipes with it, and their snare is one of the best IMO because it requires no side tech and comes right away. The only drawback is they are rather weak early game before that, kinda similar to infantry sections. Meanwhile volks feel okay early game but bad late game. I think giving some minor combat bonuses at the higher vet levels would be warranted.
About the Schwerer HQ: definitely agree. Holy shit is this thing cancerous to play against on certain maps. Locking down a huge section of the map, usually a VP that can then remain uncontested while it's alive, thus dragging the game on longer and giving the OKW a chance the power creep. Combine it with double leigs and the feelings of playing against it becomes disturbingly similar to playing against the old Brit sim city. I wouldn't say game breaking, but incredibly frustrating and the game instantly becomes unenjoyable. Definitely needs to go when OKW gets other buffs. |
OP you said yourself this was to vent, so no one is going to take you seriously because your IQ has dropped from the rage. Maybe come back later after you cool off a bit and maybe formulate better points rather than just one anecdotal clip (which shows you playing pretty badly, btw). |
This unit in the British arsenal rarely sees use from my experience watching high level games. I think the reason is fairly obvious: it doesn't do as well for it's intended role as an HMG compared to other units of similar price points. All other HMGs have some strength that makes them (roughly) on par with each other, the MG42 and 50cal with it's awesome suppression and damage, the Maxim with its 6 man squads, and the MG34's good suppression combined with OKW's ability to push early.
The Vickers has okay damage and that's about it; but Infantry Sections are a much more practical choice in this department. Furthermore, the suppression on this unit is not adequate in dealing with axis squads which are by nature designed to fight and kill units with higher model counts. I've lost count of how many times I witnessed a blob of infantry walk into the cone of fire of this unit and decrew it before it has a chance to suppress, much less fire. I was hoping the change to HMG positioning would allow this not to happen, but it does, little, if anything to remedy the situation.
I think this unit needs better suppression since it has recently lost it's defining characteristic of having a wider range in buildings after vet 1, and even that made it only viable on certain maps. |
Just adding my two cents. I think this is a horrible change. Crushing has been present since CoH1, I think I speak for many when I say we feel its a staple to the series and allows some serious micro-intensive play, as to perform the crush you will be putting your vehicle at risk, but also neglecting all your other units and potentially losing them. I think as OP said, with the introduction of fausts to Volks, crushing will not have the same impact as it once did. Trying to crush against Ost players was already risky because of the potential of panzerfausts, and now that volks have that and infantry AT on their engineer unit, it won't be an issue. |
Hello all,
Before I go into it, I just want to say I was unsure of what sub-forum this topic would best benefit from. I chose balance because it seems to be the most active and in some ways this is related to the stale and, I guess you could say, some ways imbalanced state of the Soviet faction.
First off, I just want to say that I personally made this thread because I find the Soviets to by far be the least interesting faction of the bunch to play - they always rather provided insufficient amounts of fun to me personally do to their reliance on doctrines - and with the Soviets and Ostheer being the faction with the most doctrines currently available, it makes it kind of disheartening that only a few of the Soviet ones are truly viable.
I think this problem stems from the faction's lack of a reliable non-doctrinal medium tank. All other factions have a medium tank who's abilities are at least worth considering, but the T34/76 is extremely lackluster because of its intended role - to be used in large numbers as a sort of swarm unit, in use sustaining losses of their own while hopefully trading for equal or slightly better losses on the Axis side. Not only is this incredibly micro taxing - it's not very feasible in smaller game modes - where you will not have the opportunity to build as many of these tanks to fit their current (badly) intended role.
So without doing a huge unit overhaul, all I suggest is raising this unit's fuel cost to 100FU or so, and moving it down to T3. Currently, it arrives at the same time as it's Axis counterparts, which are not only superior in every way, but they also don't require doubled numbers to fight effectively. By this point, this tank's independence is very limited. While I understand that all units in the game are supposed to be used in cohesion with each other, every other faction's medium tank is able to retain some independence and go about lightly harassing enemy units and sectors. The T34/76 is already limited in it's anti-infantry performance, so I don't think moving it down to T3 and increasing it's price to an appropriate level will be terribly devastating for any of the opposing factions. I also feel the T34/76 works in MUCH better conjuction with the SU-76, as the T34 can receive a minor beating and maybe, RNG willing, dish out a few blows of its own while an SU-76 works in the background on the intended target. I personally feel this can provide very fun and beautiful unit cohesion in the Soviet faction.
Now this leaves the subject of the Soviet T4 building - which I propose becomes a sort of heavier, upgraded version of the T3 building (similar to Ostheer T4 is to T3) which players can use if they so chose not to rely on doctrinal call-ins. I DO NOT like to advocate for historical resemblance over gameplay, but it seems a shame that such an iconic unit like the T34/85 is limited to two doctrines - so I propose removing it completely from it's doctrinal habitat and placing it in T4 by default. This way, a T34/85 and SU-85 unit synergy can become something of a heavier, more fuel invested version of the T34/76 - SU/76 combination. It will give players the opportunity to chose between lingering in T3 with a potentially more inadequate tank force and playing late game call ins, or for players to chose to invest more fuel in teching and get the heavier Soviet options in T4.
The only problem this leaves is what to do with the Soviet doctrines that utilize the T34/85 ability. For this I propose simply replacing the ability with a KV-1 call-in (another iconic unit which I feel sad to see be limited to one very mediocre doctrine). Of course adjust it's CPs to 12 or so, as even right now in the Counterattack Tactics commander it's at a stupidly low CP requirement.
So, this is just pretty much my one suggestion on how to revitalize the Soviet faction's appeal. Right now I can't help but be tired of seeing the standard SU-76/Zis spam into IS2, the Lend Lease Sherman call in, and players being forced into Guard Motor/Armored Assault everytime they want to tech up to T4 and have access to a T34/85.
So, any suggestions and constructive criticism on my idea would be great, thanks! |
Infantry sections are now the crappest infantry in the game.
this is the biggest issue, along with zero indirect fire
I agree this is the biggest issue. I don't really understand why they were changed in the first place. Maybe 5 man squads with double brens was excessive - but they could have just made the unit's weapon slot to 1 - and now that the cost for upgrading to 5 man squads has been increased (which takes away from a lot of diverse starting build orders, btw, IMO) I really don't understand why they were nerfed. |
So I just wanted to quickly make this thread so players could post their opinions on the UKF's performance post-patch. With all the OKW OP threads circulating, I didn't want this issue to be overlooked. While I certainly agree the UKF did need some nerfs, I think some units were punished for no reason - and that in combination with underperforming units being overlooked (Sexton, Firefly) I feel this thread will serve some useful purpose.
Infantry Sections - I think their vet 3 was nerfed too much. In combination with their vet 2 received accuracy nerf, and their target sized being adjusted, these units do not have the same scaling as other mainline infantry, which was a major problem that the USF suffered from for the longest time. This combined with their lack of versatility that other mainline units have makes them quite unappealing.
.55 Cal Sniper - I'm fine with this unit's critical shot being pushed to vet 1, but now the UKF is in really desperate need of some sort of AT grenade since they are punished quite severely by light vehicles, especially by units that can easily circle strafe the 6 pounder like the Luchs, and nothing can be done about it.
Churchills - Standard Churchill is very unappealing right now. I'd say either lower it's cost to 500 MP, 165 FU, or keep the current cost and give it back 1600HP. Raising the Crocodile CP to 13 was a very good change, but the high fuel cost combined with the range nerf was not. IMO bring the cost to 700MP 200-210 FU and revert the range nerf.
I encourage everyone else to post their opinions and experiences on this topic, and thank you for taking the time to read. |
A cost increase would be fine (230FU is too much though IMO) if they reverted the range nerfs. |
I think a patch of this size should have had more than a month of testing. Practically redesigning a whole faction, and the changes to the other on top of it, warrant a longer trial period. It takes like a year for Relic to design a new faction, so I think it should definitely take more than a month to redesign a current one. |