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Honestly I agree, this is easily one of the worst patches to ever grace this game. Mind you I applaud Relic for trying to fix the OKW, but they did it in WAAAAY to short of a time period. They're basically partially redeisgning a faction. It takes Relic on average one year to design a whole new faction, they should give at least half that time when working on remaking a current one.
This is pretty terrible for all parties I feel - except for maybe those who play OKW exclusively, but for even them it might be bad since no one is going to want to play allies. If you like to payed for all factions, you're going to only get 1/5th of your money's worth since OKW will be an absolute machine if my time spent in the balance preview is anything to go by.
It's especially unfortunate that this is released over the holiday season. I was so looking forward to spending time on this game, hoping to be able to get enjoyment out of all armies equally. But now it looks like I'll only be playing OKW (and to a lesser extent Ostheer). USF still has a chance, but the British have been so badly overnerfed that I can't see myself playing them, and I think they'll struggle very terribly. For the Soviets - I think vs Ost is still a fun balanced matchup, but there's definitely going to be some trouble vs OKW since their only non doctrinal medium is still a spectacular piece of shit.
Honestly, I really, REALLY wish Relic would just postpone the patch so they can have a chance to fine tune it - make the OKW good again, don't make the British a total waste (as someone said, all their nerfs were so over the top it's astounding), and work out some of the kinks with the Ost and Soviets. Just take some time when working on a balance patch this big and give the game and community the patch it deserves.
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It's a good medium tank, but so is the PIV.
I really think it's in a very good state and would not change anything about it.
+1 |
It's just....terrible.
If Relic wanted to do an "overhaul" of OKW they would have removed the resource penalty, removed the extra levels of vet and balanced them out, and sorted out the schrek Volks issue (but buffed them instead with more easily attainable schreks, all for a marginal increase of 15 MP LEL).
Just wtf Relic? And the Brit changes are just 
Well it looks like I'll be coming back next patch then. Witcher 3, FO4 and SW:Battlefront shall sustain me in the meantime!
+1 RIP Brits |
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Amazingly terrible patch. |
I play a mix of Axis and Allies and I can say that the price increase is a bit too much
Same here, I can say the price increase was warranted, but it's definitely not a 540MP 180FU tank. I'd say more along the lines of 500MP/165FU would be more appropriate, or keep the cost and bring the HP back to 1600hp rather than bringing up the armour. |
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Nowhere did I bash him or say he was inexperienced. In fact I even acknowledged he was experienced in 2v2, all I said that was he didn't have a lot of games in 1v1 automatch, at least enough to say with full confidence (in my opinion) that automatch 1v1 is not valuable in terms of balance speculating. He says he plays more in 1v1 custom, so who am I to argue? I just disagreed with him on the value of 1v1 automatch in observing balance.
Please, let's get back on topic. All I wanted to do was state my opinion on the current state of the Croc and add my two cents on Lemon's statement of 60% of automatch games being worthless - I did not intend for the thread to get derailed this much. |
id say easily over half my games have been stomps, and maybe 3/4 games in 2v2s are stomps
Ok...? I don't really know what to tell you. Maybe you're playing at times when people of your skill level are absent. Not sure, mate. Hopefully we'll be able to address this problem eventually. I don't really know how you can get "half my games have been stomps" for 1v1 though since you barely have any games in 1v1 ranked. 22-1 for Ostheer is all well and good, but I would personally wait until I have 100+ games for a faction before I make such statements, especially since your first few games with a new faction are typically stomps for everyone if you have any previous experience with RTS.
Regardless, I don't really see how W/L status has any integrity in speculating about balance through 1v1 matchmaking. If I win I don't automatically assume that my opponent is bad or I'm playing a really OP army, and if I lose I don't automatically assume the reverse for my opponent. Some people are just more experience RTS players, some players just perform badly that day, sometimes you perform at your best that day, it's all a bunch of variables and it'd be incorrect in my opinion to judge the value of automatch based on how much you win.
I really don't want to derail the thread anymore though - I don't want to distract from the issue at hand and I encourage everyone to keep offering opinions and suggestions on the recent change to the Croc. If you'd like to continue this discussion you can always PM me though, and I'd be more than happy to debate the issue with you. But for now to make it easier on everyone I'd like to revert back to talking about the thread's subject. |
its a waste of time because you get matched with a player that can be totally new to the game, or a veteran of it. why not just cut out the matchmaking process and play with people you know for a fact are good?
Because a lot of people play matchmaking as it is the most convenient way to get a game going fast. Sure it's a waste of time when you get matched with a rank 1000+ player but that's not the entirety of match making (especially not 60% of it). I wasn't disagreeing with you completely, and I don't disagree that playing custom games with players you know are good - but I think both ways of playing are good for testing the balance, and I lean more towards matchmaking because you will not only get more games in, but you will go against against players of varying skill level, (it's better to play against top players, but still I think it's valuable to play against medium players as well) and you won't be playing the same 2 people over and over again so you'll be exposed to a more wide variety of strategies. |
Lemon and I have been top 10 AT in the past for both 2v2 factions, culminating in a +70 streak as Allies. Hes also won multiple 2v2 tournaments.
You really shouldn't try to pull that card on people that are clearly much more experienced than you. Hes completely right, automatch is a waste of time if you want to do meaningful testing of the game. People like him test the balance mod and strats with top 10 players, rather than leaving it to the randomness of automatch.
I wasn't questioning his skill at all - I was just pointing out that saying automatch is a more often than not a waste of time is not something I don't particularly agree with. I also was pointing out that since he failed to provide a replay where a Croc has turned around the game for him in a high ranked 1v1 custom game makes me a bit weary of the validity of his opinion on this subject. This is especially the case since most top 10 players have been absent from this game for quite some time now, so I don't really know when and where this testing could have occurred.
Of course any random team game mode is definitely not an ideal way to test balance, which is why I am speaking from a 1v1 perspective, but to say such a wide margin of lower player amount automatch games are "worthless" in testing balance just strikes me as asinine. |
custom games/inhouses. like 60% of the time automatch is a waste of time.
Lulz. Got it. I'll have to remember to ignore anyone who plays automatch as they clearly don't know what they're talking about since it's a such a waste of time, despite being you know...a core feature of the game.
then dont use it if you want/need a general purpose tank. if you have no AT in your army, why the fuck would you get a croc? makes no sense at all. if you want a tank that can take a shitton of damage, and negates enemy infantry/at guns, then get the croc.
And that's exactly the argument - it's WAY too expensive for a "specialized tank." If it was general purpose like the Tiger or IS2, then the cost would be fine. But with it's huge price tag and lack of any utility besides harassing Shreck and Gren blobs and clearing unsupported team weapons, it is completely worthless to get, which is why I think the thread was started in the first place.
And as I said before, I'm fine with a cost increase to something like 200FU or so, if you bring the range back up. But this huge cost increase combine with the range nerf, veterancy nerf, and increase in CPs makes it way overnerfed. |
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