out of the top of my head.
Infantry/support weapons.
0.9 RA
0.9 suppression
1.1 accuracy
1.1 CD
cover status
Vehicles
1.1 reload.
1.1 accuracy
Another 10% bonus via active timed ability costing mu.
But imo auras should should scale with veterancy since it allow to better balance the unit.
Would you EVER sacrifice a vehicle to get what you just posted?
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That clearly depends on the time frame. These bonuses are clearly too high at CP 2 they could be less of an issue at CP 10.
For instance a CM Panther needs vet 3 to give +20% accuracy +20% reload and that is to vehicles only...
Assume that the command vehicle comes at 10 CP*. What bonuses would you give to the Command Vehicle?
The Command Panther is a fully-functional Panther+, which also gets mark target and extra passive sight on top of everything.
* because there is no other realistic way to get it earlier anyway, unless you are stomping noobs
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Obers are getting much cheaper, which was long overdue since their original price reflected their status before nerfs after nerfs and even more nerfs, and the fact that they came with a MG-34 which now you will have to purchase for muni, without the ability build caches, oh, and its muni price just got 33% more expensive. Taking away their RA bonuses earned after insanely high Vet requirements in totally unwarranted still.
Effective HPs ((HP x model) / RA)
Vet 3 Conscripts in DBP: 680 EHP
Vet 5 Obers in live 707 EHP
Vet 5 Obers in DBP 589 EHP (same as in live/DBH Vet 3, they lost their 20% RA bonus)
IIRC in live with their RA they had about as much effective HP than Vet 3 Cons... however once you get within 10 meters of them, all their RA bonuses disappear and they are again a squishy 320 EHP squad, as vulnerable as Wehrs Pioneers...
IS are finally getting nerfed in their Vet 0 RA bonuses which was the thing that broke most early play against the Brits, as IS would just auto-win against anything you throw at them in 90% of the case, to the extent that even relative cover was almost ineffective.
Somehow when I do the same calculations, I get different results.
Vet3 Conscripts in DBP: 678
Vet5 Obers in live: 804
Vet5 Obers in DBP: 643
Obers = 4 * 80 / [0.7 (target_size) * 0.71 (vet3)]
Are you sure you're taking Ober Vet0 target size into account?
Normal faction veterancy works as follows:
Vet1: Threshold
Vet2: 2*Threshold
Vet3: 4*Threshold
OKW faction veterancy works as follows:
Vet1: Threshold
Vet2: 2*Threshold
Vet3: 4*Threshold
Vet4: 5*Threshold
Vet5: 6.5*Threshold
This means that it takes roughly similar amount of XP to get from Vet2 to Vet3 as it takes to get from Vet3 to Vet5. I wouldn't call going from Vet2 to Vet3 "insane". OKW units get their standard amount of combat bonuses as all other units from Vet1 to Vet3.
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Is there anybody that has managed to find a workaround for this?
I got a tip-off by the wikinger guys that I can look up for the presence of allow_building_campfires. However, this workaround only works if cold tech is enabled. Has there somebody found a workaround for this?
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Hmmm then one could possible make the type of vehicles give specific bonuses to specific units.
For instance:
A Cm. Cromwell could give reduced target size to vehicles to promote flanking
A Cm FF could give penetration bonuses
A Cm Churchill could give infatry cover status so that they can fight as in cover (without the actual defensive bonuses from cover)
and so on...
One also has to keep a mind on the CP it becomes available. One could try to balance it by requiring higher CP for heavier vehicles. (a refit option might be need to become available for lighter versions of the command vehicle.)
Or one can scrap it as upgrade and make a valentine command vehicle available...
What are the precise bonus that you recommend that are not "too much"?
Currently the aura gives:
-20% reload
-20% cooldown
+20% accuracy
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the issue is that the aura is to strong for the time frame (compared to other like PZIV and PZV).
I would suggest a 2 part system.
A number of small bonuses that are always on. These bonuses could increase with veterancy of the vehicle. That would make the player either risk his vehicle for higher bonuses or settle for less.
It would also have an impact when ones loses the vehicle.
A second part with activated bonus giving some added bonuses for a limited time with a cost.
One could even make the bonuses to work in only specific type of units like infatry/vehicles.
For instance the passive could work for infatry only and the active for vehicles only.
These changes can help better balance the command vehicles across all stages of the game.
Penalties can also be adjusted so that they are different according to the type of the vehicle used. light meduim heavy.
If none of this is possible, and we have to use fixed bonuses, what bonuses should, say, a command cromwell give?
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The recon plane from the command vehicle can simply go. Other commander lose a whole slot just for the recon plane.
The bonus of the command vehicle are way too high since the vehicle can stay in the back. It also arrives to early.
All auras should scale with the unit that provides them, forcing the player to move the unit into harms way to fully take advantage of the unit and not simply replace it if he loses it.
If the bonus is truly too much, what stats would you give to the aura?
How does the aura of the command vehicle compare to other aura units?
What is the combat capabilities of the command vehicle compared to other aura units?
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USF
-RE troops volley fire is still not very effective, probably not worth it, I cant see a reason not to just save that munitions and buy a bar later. Its not going to help 1v1 unless they would win anyways and 2v1 (squads) shifting targets from your opponent will still allow them to perform better.
-RE mine: Seems to do about 50? damage and slowing the vehicle down it doesn't seem worth 15 munitions, Probably should cost as much as the soviet stun mine since they seem to do about as much. 100 damage and 2 slows isn't even close to damaging an engine in terms of value. Especially if it's a specialist Anti tank mine Not worthless but certainly could be cheaper or made more effective.
-Smoke Changes: It seems like your just nerfing rifles, You can't afford to not get 3 rifles as your starting units and compete for map presence against a good player in 1v1 so no matter what your first 3 units don't scale as well anymore. May encourage more usage of the Heavy cav commander. If rifle smoke is OP and not easy to counter or too cost effective this change is ok. If you want to increase build diversity as stated this is not going to help IMO.
Officer changes will definatley help alot with MP bleed for USF, probably allow the major to be used on the front lines more.
USF Infantry changes are subject to a change. The most important question we want answered is whether the changes make the faction more interesting to play as (and counter). If the answer is that it makes the game more boring, we revert changes and balance from there.
Brits
Was the hotkey on standard changed for british medkits form H to q?
Yeah. The rationale is that when you use Smoke Raid, all units receive hold fire (which is on H). We could have given hold fire a non-standard hotkey, but trust us, it would feel awkward.
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Would replacing Stand Fast with an ability that allows engineers to build trenches, sandbags and hull down tanks work?
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In order to receive better-quality feedback about commander changes, we will be creating individual threads for each revamped commander.
The reason for this is to draw the maximum amount of scrutiny to changed abilities so that we avoid going to the extremes of perpetuating useless commanders, or proliferating Artillery-Cover like commanders.
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Intent of the changes
Our general intent with the Royal Engineer doctrine is to create a defensive-oriented doctrine, with good access to repair boosts (to counteract repair speed nerfs in the British faction), a breakthrough unit (AVRE).
The Commander Vehicle ability in the doctrine is intended to be the main anchoring point of the doctrine that allows power to shift from one side of the battlefield to another.
We acknowledge that the revamped Royal Engineer Doctrine enjoyability may appear to pale in comparison to the revamped Commando Doctrine. However, that is attributable to the fact that Brits lack proper aggressive commanders. No matter how tempting it is to repurpose every single British commander around aggression, there have to be some defensive-themed commanders, so that there is enough variety in available options.
Stand Fast
Our intend with the changes to the ability is to make individual emplacements more sustainable to maintain. While we appreciate that the community is not too keen to accept emplacements as a valid British army doctrine, Brits and emplacements are unfortunately intertwined with one another.
If you can come up with a thematic substitute to Stand Fast that will make sense for the doctrine, we will gladly replace the ability.
We don't consider Sapper Flamers a legitimate substitute at this point, until the core faction's innate weakness to early garrisons is resolved (e.g., WASP, mortar pit forward investment). This is because we want to decouple commander design from the fact that the core faction lacks some very basic tools.
Vehicle Repairs
The ability has been redesigned to focus repairs where they need them the most. At the same time, removing the mass-repair aspect of the ability also prevents it from overperforming when the army has reached critical mass.
Command Vehicle
This is supposed to be the mainstay of the doctrine. Players are expected to use durable and/or high-utility tanks to create aura units. Command Vehicle synergises extremely well with 6-pounders and infantry units. To a lesser extend, command vehicles can also assist in tank combat.
If the new commander feels meh and you haven't used Command Vehicle yet, that's probably why.
AVRE
This is meant to be the main breakthrough vehicle of the doctrine. Higher armour but lower HP will make the AVRE easier to maintain with repairs, while making it more vulnerable to flanks.
Changes will bring AVRE's utility up to par with the Sturmtiger, since it will now be able to dabble in a semi-AT role. Compared to the Sturmtiger, the AVRE is squishier and with a weaker attack; however it is much more mobile (turret, reloads on-the-move)
Flame mortar attack
The ability has been redesign to give Brits a more sustainable access to off-maps, which they currently lack. It's meant to be a cheap ability that the player can use to force a pak wall to relocate.
Conclusions
In order to achieve mastery with the Royal Engineer Commander, you should experiment with the new options you have for using Command Vehicle with (AEC, Cromwell, Centaur and Churchills; probably not Comets). You should train to use AVRE to threaten stationary weapon teams, as well as to make it cause enemy tank assaults to stand-off.
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