Profile of Mr.Smith

*necro*

I hope that we all, now, realize what #VetGate means with respect to Panzergrenadiers.
- Vet3 Panzergrenadiers are absolute beasts vs infantry
- Shrecks (like all slotted weapons) would transfer to the most ancient (and most-vetted) squad members
- Thus, upgraded Pgrens would lose their AI veterancy bonuses much faster than other squads

Post-Vetgate:
- Schrecked Pgrens will keep benefiting from their schreck veterancy
- We'll have to see just how dodgy their AI performance remains post-patch

Corollary (until Vetgate is fixed):
- The G43 upgrade might actually be useful for PGrens nowadays (if you aren't afraid of the weapon-piñata effect)

I do not agree with this idea for two reasons. The first is that mortars are already units that require micro if you want to make the most out of them. Sure, you can 'set and forget' about them and they will do damage, but you can also A-move a rifle squad and it will do damage. But just like with other units, mortars get better once you micro them more. To use them to their maximum effectiveness, you have to move them with your army, getting them as close as possible to the enemy to ensure maximum accuracy. You also have to manually target high priority squads so the shells do not get wasted. Proper use of artillery requires thought.

The second reason why I do not like your proposition is that it will just make mortars a bad investment against anything other than heavy support weapon play. Infantry heavy play often revolves around quick movement and flanking. Barrage abilities are totally useless in these types of engagements. Having mortar rely on the barrage will just send them into extinction like the heavy howitzers, but unlike heavy howitzers they do not even have the redeeming factor of obliteration the target infantry squad if they get a lucky first hit.

You make some very very good points here.

First, let me clarify my idea a bit:
- I am not saying reduce autoattack damage (e.g., nerf it by X%!)
- Instead, I am proposing to nerf the lethal (oneshot) radius of the autoattacks

This means, that if an infantry model would take 40 damage or below before the nerf, it will still take the same amount of damage after the nerf.

Now, if an autoattack would instantly kill a full-health model before the nerf:
- There is a much smaller, but still decent chance that the autoattack will still instakill a model
- However, there is now a higher chance that the autoattack will inflict ~65 damage instead

The best way to illustrate the difference is to compare Cromwell AoE to AEC AoE:
- (let's ignore accuracy. The AEC is 2.3 times better against infantry due to scatter)
- Both shells have the same AoE radius
- The Cromwell has a much better damage profile though (The damage profile of the AEC is more concentrated)
- Thus, a Cromwell shell has decent chance of insta-wiping a full health squad that is clumping up
- It is very difficult to pull this off with the AEC in less than 3 shots

Now, go find somebody in the community that thinks that AEC damage in the current patch is worthless.
(I know am handwaiving here: The major #1 reason why AEC is so good against infantry is that it has ~2.3 times better scatter)

This means:
- Mortars will still be almost as good at softening enemy infantry (and help you turn fights)
- However, you will not be able to get full-health model kills in one-shot unless you use barrages

I hope this allays the fears you put down in your second reason.

Now, regarding the first reason you listed. If you want to attack using infantry:
- You can blob them and A-move; we all know that this only gets you this far
- Proper infantry usage means that you need to spread your squads at every step, make sure each squad is behind cover (and not in front of it), dodge grenades etc
- You also need to make sure you scout ahead so that you don't walk into an ambush etc
- Correct me if I am wrong, but mortars are nowhere near as micro intensive as that (you are screening for them with a scout/MG, right?)

PS: If you are specifically referring to USF blobs, the game will be completely different post-patch; USF massively benefited from #VetGate

Doesn't the GrW34 still have its old rate of fire (2.4 seconds, I think) when using barrage? Might need adjusting a bit if the damage profile on the ability is increased.

The damage profile on barrages should stay as it is. Mortars can receive other buffs to compensate.

What I am proposing, instead, is to decrease lethal (instakill) radius on autoattacks. That way, only the model that eats the mortar shell in the face will die, and not the whole squad.

Another reason behind the proposed changes is that it will not be easy to mass mortars/leigs/pits and utilize them all to their max efficiency:
- If you make them all barrage at the same location, the enemy can easily dodge them, and you've just wasted the cooldown
- Instead, you need to select different barrage locations for each mortar individually (and refresh them, once the barrage is over)

TL;DR:
- Nerf the lethality of mortar/howlitzer autoattack.
- MAYBE buff barrage rate-of-fire/cooldown to compensate.

The micro tax argument

I have the feeling that autoattacking indirect fire units have simply too much wipe potential in this game. Especially so for a no-micro unit.

When you buy 1-2 mortars/leigs/pits you benefit from the following:
- This imposes a micro tax on your opponent, as they have to keep their infantry moving at all times
- This reduces the accuracy of their infantry, as all infantry (apart form shocks) suffers from reduced DPS while on the move

All of this is perfectly fine.

However, what's not fine is that there is no micro-tax placed on the guy that bought the mortars/pits:
- You only need to screen your mortars with an MG (for suppression) or an infantry unit (for vision)
- Then, as you spot your opponent, you have enough time to retreat/brace your mortars

Enter the UKF mortar pit barrage bug

If you've ever used the barrage ability on the UKF mortar pit, you would immediately notice that it's not that great.

The reason behind this is that one of the mortars is bugged and deals LESS damage while it is barraging than when it is auto-attacking.

You can read more about this here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/47514/ukf-mortar-emplacement-barrage-bug-mortar-inconsistency

This is wrong in so many ways:
- People expect the barrage to increase the DPS on your mortar (not decrease it!)
- Barraging incurs a micro tax on the player, whereas autoattack doesn't
- If autoattack is almost as good (or better in the UKF mortar case) as barrage, why would you ever spend your time barraging? Just let your enemy do the dodging instead!

A modest proposal

1. Swap the damage profile of UKF mortar pit autoattack and barrage
2. Apply a similar damage pattern to all indirect-fire weapon teams
3. (Maybe!) in order to compensate, increase the rate-of-fire / reduce the cooldown of barrages

What will this achieve?
- Mortar autoattack will still be able to soften enemy targets; only very slightly worse than before.
- However, it will be almost impossible to get filthy full-squad wipes with autoattack; you will need to (consciously) use barrage for that.
- Autoattack will still be almost as good at clearing garrisons.
- Barrage will be as potent as ever, so that you can use your mortars offensively.

This sounds actually intended to prevent squad wipes.

Why does autoattack deal more damage than barrage then? Hmm?

Read the linked thread. This is definitely a bug.

PS: For all I care, they could flip the damage stats of the mortar for autoattack and barrage. There is no justification for having the autoattack (set-and-forget) deal more damage than a barrage (user input needed & long cooldown).