If you don't mind me asking, what's so cheesy about the UC Command Vehicle? It isn't as fast as an AEC Command Vehicle, will be killed by a single Volks/Grenadier squad, and loses any protection its smaller target size would provide against AT weapons. In addition, the Command Vehicle ability is available at 2cp. The UC is the only practical vehicle to use it on at this point in the game and the ability provides a reason to buy a UC throughout the game.
You make a good point. However, hear me out!
The command vehicle benefits are some of the most powerful buffs in the game. The aura is seriously good, especially for LMG infantry. At the same time, the free recon is the cherry-on-the-top. To counteract this, the player should be forced to give up something.
Normally, the debuff of this ability, is one of the most debilitating debuffs in the game (even worse than suppression). If you apply this debuff on a unit that would, otherwise, be a viable fighting unit, then you have the your trade-off right there.
Normally, the kind of decision the player should make is between applying the buff on a vulnerable but cheap target, or a more-beefy but expensive tank.
The UC option allows the player to completely bypass any decision making in this part. As you correctly point out, the UC is already completely redundant the moment the ability becomes unlocked. Both because of its low damage output/survivability and because of the wide availability as hardcounters. Why not extend its life as free Fog-of-war dispeller.
This is the equivalent of spotting-scope 222 cheese we see in the live version currently. (Spotting-scope 222's have also been hard-nerfed in this mod).
For the reasons outlined above, keeping UC + free recon is not an option:
- UC-command vehicle + munitions-cost run is one option.
- Non-UC vehicle + free recon is another option.
- However, I went ahead with a more conservative option: Non-UC & munitions cost.
The reason for this is that, unlike other aura-unit commanders, the command vehicle is not the focal point of the respective commanders; AVRE and Artillery Cover are.
Also, the toggle ability seems to over-complicate the situation. The reload and cooldown debuffs are the main deterrent to creating a Command Vehicle since most UKF armoured units are not especially nimble (Centaur, Firefly, Churchill variants). An ability that only alleviates the speed penalty won't change much. Why not simply remove or reduce the speed penalty and further nerf firepower (by increasing the reload and cooldown debuffs or just disabling the main gun)?
A Churchill with the speed debuff penalty is slower than a damaged-engine King Tiger. Of course, additional snares can add additional speed penalties on top. That's beyond useless, and there's no need for it to stay that way.
You are right that the main barrier when it comes to choosing a command vehicle is the loss of offensive strength. However the greatest barrier of all to using a command vehicle for its aura is its lamentable speed.
Low speed means that you cannot relocate the command vehicle where it is really needed. At the same time, the 2x received accuracy penalty and low speed means that the command vehicle will immediately die to anything that decides to go for a yolo-flank.
Since, once again, the aura bonuses are very potent, the command vehicle toggle seemed to be the only pragmatic choice I could think of:
- If you want to relocate/stage an attack, toggle the aura off and relocate
- When you decide that an engagement is favourable, you toggle the aura back on. However, make sure that the vehicle is well protected
This is not foolproof, yet, though, as the debuff doesn't affect offensive abilities:
- A command-vehicle AVRE is going to be a king
- Ditto for a grenade-spamming Churchill
I could make it so that all offensive abilities take 2 times more to recharge, to keep this fair, and I probably will in a future version.
Sorry to bring up an older change but it looked a little odd to me.
This was very good feedback. Don't worry about it!
Suggestions:
I think plane of 'UK Command vehicle Recon' should be one free round plane and 180 second(or more) cooldown instead of costs 40 munitions. Perhaps (40MU) is expensive in 1v1
Valentine and HTInfrared beam should be 60 seconds and 'x' cooldown
But I still think 60 seconds in recons/maphacks/flares is too (excessive in designing of relic)
I don't really like free abilities that much. Especially if the potential gains for them can be reaped immediately. For instance, it takes one single plane sweep to be able to target an ability/foil an incoming flank.
IRHT/Valentine are even worse since you cannot shoot down the maphacking ray. Since both vehicles are very easily-replacable, it is also prohibitely expensive to stage a flank to take them down. That has to change.
I haven't released this yet. However, in the next version I am changing IRHT/Valentine/Kubelwagen maphax. From memory, the changes look like this:
Valentine/IHRT scan ability:
- 25 or 30 munitions
- 30 second duration
- 60 second cooldown (i.e., 30 secs after the ability finishes)
- Both units given a "handbrake" option to prevent unvoluntary movement (e.g., having your vehicle pushed which would cancel the scan)
IHRT:
- Cost lowered to 75 MP/5 FU (since you now actually have to pay for it to be used)
Kubelwagen Detection:
- 25-30 munitions cost
- 10 second duration (you can't turn it off though)
- 60 second cooldown
Kubelwagen changes:
- Detection unlocked when MechHQ is set
- Smoke grenade (30MU, 15 range) unlocked when MedHQ is set
- Vet1 no longer does anything (used to be detection)
The reasons I haven't released the newer version yet is that is because it is not possible to animate a smoke grenade launched from the kubelwagen.
Romeo
Mr Smith
Luciano
Mr Smith
Relic Entertainment
