Uh, the DPM on this thing is amazing.
76 is very good vs the most prevalent vehicle going up on the field vs USF right now: the Panzer 4.
The higher DPM and the bonuses from combined arms makes is a competent vehicle to reliability win vs the P4 on 1v1. With good ground firing control it can also be better than the Ez8 at anti infantry because of their shared AOE profile and the 76 having better reload.
If you're having trouble with its A.I performance try ground firing. People have been doing that it circumvent the Crummywell's piss poor anti infantry performance for year.
If you ask me the Ez8 probably need better aoe lol, the thing can't compete with the P4J in terms of aoe although miragefla already touched on that.
Plus it's in probably the best 1v1 USF doctrine atm? If you are in team games thou just don't buy it and get a Jackson?
Dont forget the soviet lend lease commander. Im well aware how good the mech commander is but why should I consider getting it when bulldozer blades on a regular sherman are far better in the long run?
The cromwells aoe is quite good (aoe is 1, 0.4, 0.2 and but shares the same aoe distance).
Also, Im really just suggesting a reshuffle of its vet because its clear its not suppose to be amazing against infantry. Literately its reload is all whats going for it. |
Since watching the 2v2 invitational tournament ad after seeing (and using) the M4A3 76mm Sherman in action, was quite disappointed with its overall performance against tanks and infantry.
I decided to have a quick look at its performance (ai and at) compared to the E8s and found it scarily similar in fact almost negligible difference in ai performance.
| 76mm Sherman (USF)/M4C Sherman (soviet) | E8 Sherman |
| Cost | 380mp/125 fuel | 380mp/140 fuel |
| Movement | 2.3/4.4(acc/dec) 6.5 max speed, 34 rotation | 2.1/4 (acc/dec), 6.1 max speed, 32 rotation |
| Health/armor | 640/160 | 720/215 |
| Target size | 21 | 21 |
| Pop | 12 | 14 |
| Vet requirements | 1820/3640/7280 | 1880/3760/7520 |
| 76mm Sherman (USF)/M4C Sherman (Soviet) | E8 Sherman |
| Pen (near, mid, far) | Ap round: 120, 130, 140
Hvap: 160, 180, 220
| 155, 165, 200 |
| Reload | Ap/hvap: 4.1-4.5/6.1 | 6-6.6 |
| AOE | ap only:1,0.35, 0.05 | 1, 0.35, 0.05 |
| AOE distance | 0.5, 1, 1.5 | 0.5, 1, 1.5 |
| AOE radius | 2 | 2 |
| Scatter angle | 7.5 | 5 |
| Scatter max | 5 | 5.4 |
| Scatter offset | 76mm/M4C: 0.3/0.25 | 0.325 |
| Turret rotation | 35 | 35 |
| Moving accuracy | 0.75 | 0.75 |
Summery
The aoe of the main guns for both tanks lack considerably compared to other mediums as all other mediums have a higher aoe radius of 2.5 and have a higher AOE distance (except the Cromwell that has higher aoe instead of distance).
While many think the E8 is fine with the exception of its ai power and commander, I seriously don’t know what the 76mm Sherman is supposed to be. Its base ap rounds are almost no good for anything despite having a short reload which leaves the hvap that are really only good against mediums but it doesn’t have the Armor or health to go up against heavier tanks while maintaining a higher target size than other mediums where does it sit?
While I do think its ai (for both vehicles) need to have a small buff (at lease have the same aoe radius as other mediums, the ai is really poor), the 76mm Sherman would 100% benefit more if its vet 3 bonus was swapped out for vet 2, it needs that pen bonus before the reload bonus.
Thoughts?
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For OKW, I like most of the changes but I feel I share the same opinnion of others about the panzer 4 and also do worry about a quicker ostwind more than the hetzer, jagpanzer I can understand to have some quicker AT if the hq goes down. Teching as a whole seems okay.
The halftruck I would find interesting how it compares to the us one now as it also would have the benefit of smoke.
Soviets, I find the penals infantry upgrade adding 2 svts and smoke for 50 muni dosnt look advertising at all.
The Hm 120mm mortar main problems still exist and will still be in-practical to a standard mortar.
Ost, stug E I have a bad feeling about it honestly think the unit is fine as it is. The barrage range is at-lease too far that's being suggested. Teams weapons, okay see how that goes but the panzer wefer change is huge and would need quite alot of testing.
Command panzer 4 change is a welcomed one (40% dr grenadiers anyone?). Not sure about the healing option in Hq, why is its price differently to the soviets while being the same but is practically superior due to healing 4 man squads. Ost have a fair few healing options compared to other factions as well.
Panther (okw 2) I would prefer being able to hit things when stationary (Not hard to hit stop) but iver one im fine with.
Most of the USF and UK changes are decent.
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I would just tone down the lethality but keep suppression to stop infantry to willy nilly chuck all kinds of shit on it. I reckon range could go down a tab too. At lease one of the two (lethality preferred). |
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I have more difficulty against ostheer than okw. Sure their are a few things things (like the stuka) that I find annoying but you really just should expect this in 4v4 and a lesser extent 3v3.
Also, allies that you even mentioned have cheese too, you are way to close minded. |
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I hold a grudge for this ability because in one 4v4 match on redbull, a team absolutely ablitterated us with it.
I watch a replay (I might still have it, it is old) because surly I coudnt be so careless but now I know why.
The team all coordinated it, as we pushes into their side of their map and their elefant they stuka one point and then used the supply break ability to destroy the cashe and take out the point.
The other point they pushed for and managed to push for and destroy the cashe dropping falls afterwords to neutralize the point and then activated the ability absolutely decimating us who were about to secure the win.
So my conclusion about this ability is that it is a one trick pony that needs to be executed perfectly. This team knew it that is why I never saw a storm trooper or any other ability used besides break supply chain and closed the pocket.
Kudos to them but it felt like we were cheated as they were clearly loosing.
The ability is so rare I don't care if nothing happens, it's more of a map issue anyway.
Edit: now that I think about it, if their are 4 ostheer players they could possibly just stuka the 2 points to recap them.
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While an extremely unique and hard ability to pull off in a subpar doctrine, its one of those abilities that should never be in the game.
While map dependent, the worse culprit is redbull express with only 2 point attached to the home sector (and yes a arranged team makes it far easier).
The one reason I hate this ability is because its such a huge gamble that a game that you absolutely should not win becomes a game you will win and if your already winning, it and the doctrine is pointless.
It should not exist (or the doctrine as a whole).
The times that I recall this ability being used, the player's is losing heavily. I have used it myself before and still dont like it because you shoot yourself in the foot unless you do pull it off. |
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Sturmtigers NahVW grenade range dosnt seem increase at vet 4. |
Bath posts are very informative. Just to enumerate the reasons that make it lethal: close range aoe value is relatively high; fast setup/tear down/time to fire, good scatter, good range. Am I missing something?
I dont take to much time to understand how all this works, I am not sure about the 'attached duration' its just the fact no other mortar has it. however, there are so many different barrages with different values I just go with the auto attack barrage stats so the only conclusive thing I know is the set up/tear down time.
The pack howie has 1.8 set up but no tear down time.
The leig has none.
Both we all know cant retreat and de-crew easily. |
you've made some very good points here, and your conclusion seems solid.
regarding the scatter comparison i'd be careful taking the distance scatter max values only. especially for indirect fire units, distance scatter is usually much lower than the max scatter would indicate, due to the low distance scatter multiplier.
angular scatter is important as well, and should be included to get a better overall picture.
i'd also take the reload times with a grain of salt, since there's usually considerable aim, windup or winddown delays for mortars. for example, the hm-38 auto attack has a reload of 8.9 s, but the actual time between shots is 13.5 s.
Now I know another reason why its so god dam painful to use (after I had a couple of matches).
It takes 2.5 seconds to tear down and 3.5 seconds to set up with an additional 2 seconds for the crew to begin firing (attached duration) if I am correct.
On top of that, every time you tell the 120mm to barrage besides perfectly perpendicular to the 120mm, it will tear down and set up again with the possibility of having an extra 2 seconds to 'man the gun' can take a whopping 8 seconds to fire its first fkn round.
I would like to add, the 120mm also bugged out and sometimes dosnt show a firing or reloading animation, the mortar round appears out of nowhere (I was using attack ground, could be the case with other mortars but never seen it). |
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