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Most people want to see Ost fixed because Relic is physically in capable of making good maps.
Saying "Oh Ostheer is amazing it only sucks because all the maps do" is like saying "Oh you are such a amazing person, but you suck at everything that has to do with life".
And mortars are in no way a counter to a perfect maxim spammer, and nades aren't either because if you listen to your units you can just pack the MG up and move it before the rifle nade hits, and the 6 men allow it to handle indirect fire far easier.
Maxim spam countering requires much more thought and experience to counter than it does to pull off, not to mention maxim spamming may be weaker versus Ostheer but it can easily wipe OKW off the map early game because it makes the Kubel useless.
You can maxim spam and kick ass, you can't spam any other MG in the game and kick ass, the defense rests its case.
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What an argument. Much wow.
OKW's fuel DISADVANTAGE is intended to COMPENSATE for their SUPER-GOOD units; Walking Stuka (Best arty in game), Obersoldatten, 5 minute puma/flakHT etc. Oh and don't forget, FIVE LEVELS OF VET. There's not really any point in giving them a fuel disadvantage if they can lock down one area of the map with a building that also gives them access to Obers, Panther, Luchs, while fighting on the other side with a huge blob.
Also, comparing Bunkers/FPs to T3 buidling?  Bunkers don't have a 360 degree rotatable gun that PIERCES armor. They AREN'T TECH. They DON'T give you access to PANTHERS, OBERS etc.
You sir, are a special kind of stupid.
5 minute puma/flakHT requires you to convert almost instantly and begin converting to fuel, which is pretty much suicide so I'm not even going to touch that.
The fuel disadvantage is intended to encourage unit preservation, and balance the fact that you can salvage wrecks/abandoned crew weapons as OKW. It is what justifies the quick teching as well (but USF has this to so go figure).
OKW's unit's aren't magically ~better~ than all the other factions units. Volks are worse than cons and rifles, light vehicles die fairly easy, ect. Most of the time the only 2 units people have issues with is the Panther and Obers, but I think everyone agrees that Obers are BS and need a fix, while the Panther is just a case of people not understanding how large of an investment a Panther is.
The point isn't that the Schwer is exactly the same as a Bunker/FP, but rather than it achieves the same effect as it. The Schwer shouldn't pen medium armor, but if it lost the ability to do so it's basically just a beefier FT that can't get decrewed (which is fine).
This argument initially started with the idea that locking down area's of the map is unfair, when that's fucking stupid to argue when every faction can do that.
Its not about splitting troops to fight in forest. Its about sending one squad to cap for better VP drain. Your explenation why you did not take forest with single squad is amazing.
Digging hard? I saw few bunkers. Thats all. You dont know what digging hard means. I will show you someday in replay.
So 3 leig vs 10 ost mortars through entire game and leig still did better.
LeiG did more damage because it hit a few tanks (it didn't actually kill any), but the Ostheer mortars were far far more annoying. Of course none of that matters because Axis indirect is a joke if you know how to counter it, which is exactly what happened lol.
Neither me or my friends/clan enjoy forest fighting, dem retreat paths and water. Of course hindsight is 20/20, but still fuck forest. |
The folks playing in late 2013 know and will remember it. Cheers though. That 10% additional suppression bulletin? Pure gold back in the day.
MG42 spam was pretty novel because it was around the same time the ISU got it buff and the minute everyone hit 12 CP it was squad wipe city 
Ultimately it was stupid then when you could spam it, and it's more than possible to make it a better blob deterrent now with out making it spammable. I mean, the maxim is more than spammable now and nobody gives a shit. |
I ve watched it. So much fun 
I did not see ANY defensive line.
4 random bunkers with MGs, easily taken down, no big deal and they were not covering each other.
But funny things... for the whole game none of you figured out that you can take forest VP as well 
But the best part was around 43' when you teammate took forest ammo point and then walked through whole map to fight for city VP instead of taking forest VP  I was crying when I saw that, really
Oh, and the leig was best indirect fire through whole game. Soviet mortart 1700 vs infantry, axis mortart 3400 (something around it) and leig... 4900 + damage vs vehicles
Leig, so bad.
And what's the point of this replay? Shooting with Katys?
I mean... You were facing true newbies.
Two of them without any prestige star, PzGrens blob, shooting with PzWefer at max range... One of them was high experienced guy but.... thousands games as OST and 21k in ladder in 2v2 
Such team should be beaten around 15-20min with rushing for fuel, but since you even did not figure out that you may take forest VP which was unsecured through entire game... 
Im sorry, but this replay is crap, although I admit I was laughting when I saw what your friend did. He's in the forest, VP is unsecured, he's walking through whole map to fight for city VP
Let me copy this to replay site 
Laugh before going to sleep is always a good think, thanks for it! 
We decided at the start of the game not to contest the forest because the forest on that map is cancer and none of us like playing around in it. On that map city + middle is far more important than forest, and the best way to lose is bogging yourself down in a fight over it.
The point is the Schwer wasn't an issue at all and even though they played like campers covering everything in bunkers (they got more than 4) and digging in hard they still lost, which goes directly against your earlier claim that such play is impossible to beat.
And they made far more mortars than we did, and the dude had 3 LeiG's at point, obviously such spam won out for them in the end right? MVGame
Lol did Alex just compare a bunker with Schwerer?
If your issue is that the Schwer can lock down parts of the map, then why is that not okay but it's fine to just spam bunkers and other stuff to lock down parts of the map?
Logically if your think turtling with the Schwer is cheap, wouldn't you also say bunker spam or FP spam is cheap to? |
Serious questiono you know what reading is? When i mentioned the maxim I said a "LONE unsupported maxim against a larger more expensive force" not overlapping maxim spam,which is obviously powerful,until proper early indirect fire(which ostheer of COURSE doesnt lack since they have the best counter to maxim spam/MG spam in the game) comes along. and lone maxim on its own trying to hold a flank is a flaming POS like every other LONE MG in coh2.
You can spam maxims like nuts and get away with it, you cannot spam MG34/42's and get away with it. The maxim's mobility combined with it's durability allow it to function as basically just another mainline infantry unit instead of a support weapon.
Are there counters to maxim spam? Yes, but they are far more involved than counter to MG42/34 which is just attack it with more than one unit, or just crawling up to it and nading it. |
REALLY!?
The G43 equipped soldier needs to hit the model with bellow 80% health to snipe it, and you can't control what model the soldier is shooting at so it can just shoot at full health soliders all day like an idiot, or sometimes it can kill several models rather quickly.
It's fairly RNG based, with Pathfinders somewhat less so because you have two snipe capable models. |
I played a bit of ost today and payed very close attention to how my MG42s performed.
The MG42 only failed me when I didnt support it. When I had a decent force near it to spot and finish off threats,it was good. It suppressed..it didnt murder everything in sight instantly...but it made the engagement easier for me to win. It did its job reasonably well,not flawless,but well.
Some of you seem to want an MG42 that can just lock down a flank or angle all on its own,For 240 mp. Do you axis fanbois understand how ridiculous that is? 240 mp is NOTHING. Especially if grens get a buff along with tech cost reductions(which will certainly happen) Ost will go right from last,or 3rd, to first next patch. They are already damn good once you get out the mid game,IF you get out the mid game, and hold off the first 9cp Call in or early m20/sherman. TigerPak wall with LMG blob is not diverse or unique,but damn strong.
Use the MG42 in conjunction with other units at all times.. By itself its a POS, and will fail you. like EVERY OTHER MG IN THE GAME. NO FACTION HAS A GOOD LONE WOLF MG RIGHT NOW and they SHOULDNT. Not even soviets and the maxim,because a lone maxim against a larger or more expensive force is as dead as any other MG. When I see a lone MG or know theres a lone MG in the FOW as any faction I lick my chops. When I realize I left an MG alone,i curse myself and hope I dont lose it,or hope I get lucky and catch a squad walking into the arc. Like it should be.
When someone makes a large flank attack with more MP and resources invested than you and they succeed in their assault...then...what are you guys expecting to happen?
In that video that MG had no health,1 man, and there wasnt a supporting squad 2 screen lengths away. WTF were you expecting to happen!?? The one Hero of the Reich Defender of the Fatherland MG42 to just mow down the guards Audie Murphy Style?
Im sick of hearing that BS about squads just walking up to MG42s and wiping it 100% of the time. I NEVER DO THAT EVEN WITH SMOKE unless the mg is completely alone,and I should wipe it. Its an unsupported MG.
And blobs walking up and doing that are a different story,as again,every faction struggles with slowing down blobs with just MGs,not just OST. the thread title should be : Coh2-Blobs because THAT is the problem. if someone out flanks and outnumbers you with multiple squads they just out played you.
I Dont understand what you guys(ost fanbois) really want from an MG42 besides something that is totally OP and unfun to deal with.
Serious question: do you know what maxim spam is? |
And tiger+ele combo from same player was the most balanced thing ever.
Does your apologism have any limits?
They changed it because there were no WFA factions and Ostheers teching wasn't as expensive as it is now. The Elefant would be impossible to get with the tiger if it was in T4 due to the cost. There is reason you don't see Panther + Tiger. |
That sounds pretty much exactly like the Maxim...at least the 42 has some chance of suppressing a blob with spotters, the Maxim basically doesn't suppress blobs with how bad its AoE suppression is.
But you can re target the maxim to hit another squad easily, the MG42 has to swivel. |
Woah, and there I was in the beta weeping whenever a t70 would crush my gren squads.
Ohhh the cruel perils of the pendulum of balance how you doth sway...
At one point the Elefant was part of T4, which made is come in later than the current Elefant does ironically.
Ostheer getting the Panzerwerf back in T3 would also help fix some things. |
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