Profile of JohnnyB

Don't worry JohnnyB .. obs mode isn't OP.

There is a 8 min delay.

Really?

To put it bluntly, yes.

Shocks body armor is about equal to -33% received accuracy against weapons with penetration values of 1 (SMGs, Infantry rifles) and less against weapons with more than 1 penetration (HMGs, LMGs, Vehicle mounted MGs). Obers have a base -30% received accuracy.

Now vet, Shocks get one survivability boost of -29% received accuracy. Obers get two -29% modifiers. So each Ober model is ~29% more survivable (give or take a little bit) than a Shock Model (with Shocks being vet 3 and Obers being vet 4).

Then damage. When a shock model dies the squad loses a flat 1/6 of its damage. With Obers about 70% of the damage (at long range) is on the LMG model. Meaning the Ober squad will put out most of its effective damage with only one model left. The ratio of LMG/Rifle damage for obers of course shifts more towards the rifles as range decreases, but even at close range the LMG model does almost as much damage as a Shock model. Obers also deal good damage at all ranges, while Shocks do basically 0 until they hit range 10. This means a player can retreat before Shocks can really do any damage.

Obers also gain the ability to suppress infantry at vet 4, further skewing any infantry combat in their favor. They gain sprint at vet 5, which doesn't help them directly in combat but does have tactical advantages.

Oh and Obers also have a smoke grenade, that slows+damages unit caught in it (gain the ability at vet 1)

If you want to speak about squad models individualy, let's compare it a little: OS model armor: 1.0. ShocK model armor: 3.0. Os model HP - 80. Shock model HP - 80. OS model mp cost: 100. Shock model mp cost: 65. Os population: 2.0. Shock squad population: 1.66.

looking at what you said and at these figures, I dunno, but they are looking pretty balanced to me!

@Katitof - Ummm I wouldn't say so. He still needs to work on it.

caches give resources to all players

Fortunately.

If you play Axis and like to share resources try using Luftwaffe doctrine. Paradroping fuel supply to your OKW mate can do wonders

It's not about just Obers, it's that there are too many units with insane DPS at long range.
It's easier to deal with Shocks with 222, sniper, MG, LMG rather than Obers with M3s, MGs and up to some point Snipers (double sniper are an awesome counter but a SLIGHT mistake and the Ober snipes them).

Well I don't think that long range units with efficient DPS are necessarely a problem. The german factions design is to be more efficient at long range. Soviets for instance, have no such advantage but in compensation they have larger squads. I don't know, this seems logical to me. Now the quantity of micro needed to play both sides is debatable, some consider is harder with allied and others it's harder with germans. I personally think the hardest factions to micro are ostheer and USF but this is my opinion.
I understand some players' frustration towards obers but let's not push this to extreme. All armies in COH2 have the proper tools to win, but some of them are requiring more skill for victory. But then, we have to consider the fact that the player base does not contain only people who play 4 hours a day every day. So there must be factions for them too. For instance, soviets . Sorry, I could't abstain. Joke.

although i prefer axis, i do have to agree with you there...
today i was locked down by an usf player on langres... i had 3 strategic points and 1vp...
he had 3 shermans (having both fuel points). i had only 1 ober squad 3 shreked-up-volks and 3 püppchen. a couple of minutes later my superior AT forces had gotten rid of his tanks and the obers were vet 5 with 60+ kills to their name...
then i just built a KT and mopped up the rest of his forces.
he had to surrender with 300 vp (i had 100ish). i should have lost,
but i won that game because my obers laughed at his infanrty trying to survive volleys of lmg34 fire ( "haha, schau hans, sie fallen wie die fliegen" - Obersoldat Fritz 2014) and his only available counters where useless against vet 5 volks with shreks (the püppchens died though )

Did ever occured to you that you beat him because you simply were better than him? First question I can think of is if he have locked you, why the heck didn't maul you with balistic weapons? Aka field gun, mortar, priest.....No Ober in the world would escaped that.

To others: Guys, I won't deny that USF needs some buffs, but all these "nerf Obersoldaten" whynings are pissin me off. They got nerfed once in the past, good, it was needed. One ober squad in the middle of the road fighting against 3 penal squads in cover and force them retreat was not normal. But now.... I remember soviet fanboys arguments back before WFA related to why shock troops are not counterable by any kind of infantry: "They cannot be countered by the thing they were build to counter" ; "But... they have no AT capabilities... JUST USE A VEHICLE!!" ; "They are elite infantry troops. THEY SUPPOSE TO BEHAVE LIKE THIS" ; "But...they cost alot! THey can't be spammed!" and so on....

Now eat your own cake.... They are perfectly fine, and they can be countered even by an infantry unit, UNLIKE shocks were in the past, when Ostheer squads were nearly defenseless against them. Shock troops can counter them for instance!