Profile of symbolsix

I tried to stay away from this topic because it was turning into another silly production, however, I had to ask.

How is anyone seriously considering this debating point that shocks are getting wiped by this ability?

I find that INCREDIBLY absurd. Unless you are running your shocks into a group of 4 volks squads, I can't even fathom how this would happen; and even then, you'd still have to do some work to get hit by this ability.

Firstly, this ability is incredibly easy to dodge and INCREDIBLY obvious when it's going down. The ENTIRE squad starts shrugging off their rifles and reaches for a grenade.

But that's not even the glaring counterpoint here. Secondly, and mainly, I'd hope we all know that this ability produces one less grenade per lost model. Considering the range of this ability, I can't even consider that there's a volks squad that is going to get off all 5 grenades at that range before 2 of the models are dead.

I'm baffled. The "it gives volks too much firepower against shocks" point can't even seriously be considered. Grasping for straws at this point.

Hey man, if I can play devil's advocate for a second:

• Didn't you see the replay in OP? It's totally possible to wipe a shock squad with this ability.
  
• It's totally ridiculous for an ability that has wide AoE explosive damage to be effective against Shocks. Sure, they're a six man squad so AoE naturally does about 150% of the damage it would to a four man squad, but it's totally ridiculous to wipe them even though Shocks have armor.*
  
• It's totally ridiculous for an ability that can theoretically wipe a squad to cost 10 munis just because the victim is asleep at the keyboard. It's not like any other infantry squad has a zero munitions "flank an MG and gun down the crew without taking casualties" ability.
  
• If you don't take these arguments totally seriously just because people making them have never used the ability, then you're a racist. These arguments are founded on absolutely rock solid theory, no wobbly practical experience.
  
• Haven't you heard OP say "maths" and "numbers" eight times in this thread?
  

To address you directly: I'm also baffled. Most streamers are pretty good players, and OKW is at least a plurality (if not an outright majority) of games I've seen streamed. If Infil Nades were actually "teh pwnzor", I'd expect to see them used once in a while. I haven't kept precise count, but my impression both from streamers and my own play (I play about 4:3 Allies) is that Spec Ops is the least chosen doctrine by OKW in 1v1 and 2v2.




*Editor's note: Armor doesn't protect infantry from explosives.

This.

Complain all you want about maxims, snipers, M3, shocks, etc... all the cheesy soviets strats are used because they don't have a proper infantry unit useful from the early game until late game, as other factions have: grens/volks/rifles.

Same happens for the ISU-152/IS2 which they've to do the job that soviet T4 can't do.

A-hem hem hem...

•  
  

  0

  VS

  Romeo

  cohbros/ Ohme

  Conscripts Shocks KV8 IS2

  by: Romeo map: Faymonville Approach

  1

  -

Here's a fresh replay of the aforementioned strat

•  
  

  0

  VS

  Romeo

  cohbros/ Ohme

  Conscripts Shocks KV8 IS2

  by: Romeo map: Faymonville Approach

  1

  -

Thanks man, I'll watch this when I get home.

These grenades do completely destroy garrisons. A volley of 5 grenades in a reasonably small garrison will reliably wipe the whole squad/weapon team. This is by design. Its one of the best reasons to pick a commander w/ infiltration tactics on urban maps

Most useful information in the thread so far, and I'm highly ashamed I had to read about in on the forums. I'm going to try this next time I get one of those maps as OKW.

Funny eh? Now maths aren't an argument anymore. Things sure change quickly. Actually let's just get back on the subject at hand.

Speaking as someone with a graduate degree in the field I can assure you that maths haven't graced a single line of this thread, and I'm long accustomed to poseurs from other disciplines trying to co-opt its authority. Try again.





Bled, I don't think FestiveLongJohns is saying Infil Nades are OP; he pointed out its flaws and explained how to deal with it earlier in the thread. Now he's just giving tips on what they *are* good for.

Vocal minority means the people who talks, but those people are still a minority considering the vast number of player who didn't talk who are also part of the community.

...

So, basically, you whine about being shouted down by the "vocal minority", even though your definition of the term applies equally well to you yourself?

I counter argumentated those points and repeated myself a few time to be sure. Not gonna do it again. So either you didn't read the post or you ignore those arguments which is said "bias". Arguments should work both ways.

Sure you "counter argumentated" but as I said, that just brings it down to two sets of contrary opinions. There's no mathematical formula by which you've shown that a 10muni cost is out of balance with a 2min out-of-combat-only cooldown. Lacking such objectivity, what we can know for certain is that good players who are known to favor all factions disagree with you, and that OKW players don't seem to choose the infiltration nades commander disproportionately often.

As for the videos, there is one expressing pretty much all the points mentionned in this thread. I never was caught off guard. I saw them comming from miles and war going to engage them (hence the smoke) but i didn't expect an instant 10MU squad wipe, so yea i guess you could say i got caught off guard.

So you weren't caught off guard, you just *chose* to eat a grenade (of any type) without moving, and because you weren't familiar with the specific grenade in question this turned out worse than you expected? That doesn't show any problem with balance, it just shows that you had something to learn about the game.

As LongJohns said, if you really think it's OP, try face rolling with it and see how far you get. What it comes down to is that lots of players disagree with you, and lots of others agree, and without seeing your specific playercard or any of your replays, there's no way for anyone to tell whether you're a good player who recognizes a real problem with the meta, or a mediocre player who just doesn't want to learn how to deal with a specific ability.