Profile of comm_ash

Now it´s 90 fuel, 50 range. In the Alpha it also had 55 range with the 95 fuel. I would gladly pay 5 fuel more for 5 more range.

If at all it has been made less cost effective than in the Alpha.

Absolutely right, I didn't see that line, my bad. :}

Either way, I want to see if relic finally figured out the teching costs from alpha, looking forward to next patch. Hopefully.

Soviet players already crying about the Stug being OP before the patch has even released

And what about USF players? The Stug G will now hard counter Shermans with its high ROF, forcing 1-2 Jacksons on the field. In the alpha, the Stug G was increased to 95 fu to compensate for its increased power. This has not happened in the live build for whatever reason. I'm not saying that the Stug G is OP, but its timing and cost effectiveness is questionable at it current cost.

You cannot call a unit balanced because it is fighting OP units from one faction. Would it be fair if the maxim had been buffed to have the same DPS as lmg obers and 70 range instead of nerfing lmg obers? Of course not, that would be retarded. One unit being OP does not mean that its counter should be overbuffed to counter it. That would cause the other faction (ostheer in the example, USF vs. the Stug G) to have a much harder time for no good reason.

It depends quite heavily on what faction you are playing as, and what MG you are fighting.

USF:
1) Rush M20. You will be doing this anyways most games and the M20 will hard counter both Axis MGs by either flanking or just driving straight at it if incendiary ammo is not available. Watch for supporting infantry with pshrecks and pfausts. Armored skirts required.
2) Get grenades package for riflemen. The package gives you access to smoke rifle grenades and Mk2 grenades. Use smoke to assault Mgs frontally, 1 per mg, and grenades to quickly clear out grenades.
3) Use the USF Mortar HT with White Phosphorus to burn MGs out of buildings and disrupt enemy formations. These rounds also act as smoke cover. Spam them all day every day. Remember that they do not kill units, so you will need supporting squads to clear out the slowed and damaged units. Unfortunately, these rounds do not provide veterancy for the mortar, so you will need to use HE rounds to gain vet, or swap out the vehicle crew.
Lategame) The Priest will hardcounter support weapon builds easily, but comes very late.

Sov:
1)Get molotovs after 4 conscripts. Molotovs will allow you to force MGs out of buildings and cover, and allow you to quickly OORAH flank an mg and force it away. Always attack axis MGs from multiple angles of attack, so that 1 squad will get through.
2)Build 120mm or 82mm mortar. Both work well against MGs. Zis barrage works as well is you are floating munitions.
3) Shock troops at 2 CPs to use smoke and grenades against MGs.
4) Flamer M3 clown cars are fragile, but can easily force away mgs after a successful flank.
Lategame) The ML20 will force units to fallback, and will deal good damage to anything that stays in its arc. The B4 works too, but is more of a one-hit wonder for wipes.

OST:
1) Build grens and counter Maxims and M2HBs by uing riflegrenades at long range. You can easily wipe the crew by just firing from max range, assuming you have the munitions to do so.
2) Build 81mm mortar or MHT. Both do very well against allied MG spam due to the 81mm mortar's fast ROF. This allows you to quickly kill maxims and M2s. The MHT can use its incendiary round to force a retreat or wipe the MG crew. You Generally shouldn't use smoke as axis, since you don't really have assault troops. If you have panzergrenadiers, you can use mortar smoke to allow them to flank and throw a bundle grenade, but remember that they are expensive.
3) Pop stormtroopers from behind support weapons and throw a bundle grenade.
4) Use OH sniper. Best vs. USF mg, but works vs. Maxim.
Lategame) The Sturmpanzer 4 will wreck enemy fortified positions, and can fire over some buildings. Use attack ground to make it more accurate and able to fire indirectly.

OKW:
1) OKW has a hard time dealing with mg spam, due to their lack of early game munitions for grenades, and lack of an effective manpower support gun. Use either of the doctrines with infiltration grenades to cheaply dispose of enemy mgs.
2) If in a 2v2+, build a Stuka Zu Fus, which will force retreat (and likely wipe) all enemy support weapons in its barrage path. Very high risk, so make sure you have mines and AT to protect it, and an ally to support your strategy.
3) Fallshimjaeger can quickly flank and dispose of mgs by popping out of buildings with their high DPS and access to powerful grenades.
4) Obers in the midgame can frontally laserbeam Mgs to death with their lmg upgrade. Each burst from their lmg will likely kill a crewmember, and their bundle grenade/frangible will deal very good damage on flanked mgs. Use in spread out groups of 2.
Lategame) Sturmtiger. Because overkill or nokill.

I probably left something out, but these are generally the tools you have to work with.

yes a staggering 11.3 % damage difference between the sherman and the t-34 (9.9% at long range btw) . You obviously believe wish to believe the t-34 is bad. fine by me. But i rather wait until 27th and seen how the new patch will work out.

The 11% is quite large, especially when you take into account that Sherman AP rounds are more effective vs. infantry than the t34/76. The Sherman and p4 are literally better in every way for not much more. You still haven't told me why the t34/76 is fairly priced.

Being a better player doesnt mean its balanced. i have seen 3 t70 killing a panther and i have used a single puma vs a is2 and won.

So now you are saying that the ability for a tank to punch above its class should have nothing to do with micro? Then why do you think the Jackson is so great, seeing as it can only beat panthers and tigers because the player decides to move it out of range. Does that also make shrecks OP, since it requires micro to kite shrecks? Obviously not. COH2 is a game that is heavily reliant on player micro to get the most out of their units.

And here i thought people went ET because the TA didnt cost any fuel.

If the P4 is as bad as you say, why don't people just get panthers and brummbars? After all, the TA costs no fuel, so obviously players will skip the P4 since it sucks so much. (Hint: It probably doesn't)

You greatly overestimate the AI capabilities of the p4. and if you believe that the t-34 is bad at AT why no get an su85 and use callins to cover any gap.

Because callins are very fuel expensive. T34/85s and IS2s are in the neihborhood of 230+ fu. Buying 1 SU85 costs 240 FU. That means that using callins with stock armor is the LEAST efficient way to play the game.

The point of this thread is to buff the T34/76 so that callins can safely be ignored and nerfed. (Read OP if you need reminder). Having the ability to use stock units with callins makes no sense. Does that make the JP4 + P4 combo OP?

I never said tier 3 is fine. in fact i have stated the opposite that tier is as logical as a luchs in the okw hq building. The units themselves are fine however. and their is no such thing as a core unit when it comes to tanks.

Tech costs only affect unit timing. So yes, with current tech costs, the T34/76 is TIMED at a good point, but the issue is getting subsequent T34s out, and currently, just about everyone in this thread has agreed that the T34/76 needs a cost decrease so that subsequent tanks can be fielded faster. If you want to know why, go ahead and read the posts of just about everyone else.

Su85's are not hardcounterd by panthers. it depends on a varied of circumstances including terrain commander usage and skill of the players. but a panther attacking a su85 head one stand a very good change of losing. And spam will solve nothing. supported td's are still going to utterly wreck any medium generalist as they should because somehow you believe medium tanks should be capable of defeating its own counter.

Im not talking about panthers, you can see quite clearly that I reference Axis Superheavy TDs, which is the Pak43, JT, and ELE. Killing a JT/ ELE is impossible with the SU85, since it needs to engage frontally. This means that the T34/76 should be the viable unit, since it is the only Soviet stock tank. However, the T34/76 is FAR too expensive to be used in such an assault. As USF, I typically want 1-2 Jacksons + 1-2 Shermans, if I want to go deep on a superheavy. An equal investment would be 4 T34/76s, assuming you were preparing all game to fight the superheavy (that means no fuel spent on T70 or SU85). If the JT/Ele has 3 shreck volks or 2 Paks by the unit, then I can expect to lose at least 1-2 Shermans. The 2 Jacksons, however, will bring enough damage to bear that the JT/Ele will go down quickly enough. The DPS of the T34s, however, is much lower. As result, I will prbably lose 2-3 tanks. Losing 200-300 fu is not feasable when the T34/76 is the only way you are holding back Axis lategame armor. If I have a no callin doctrine (which we are trying to make more feasable), I have no counter to the axis infantry, while the Axis player now only has to deal with 1 T34/76 shooting at him.

i have no issues with that because a pak would able to quickly tear such a strat apart. having a healty mix of combined arms is vital.

A Pak would also tear the T34/76 up, so I don't understand what you are saying here. Soviets have no non-doc breakthrough unit like the Panther/ Brummbar/ KT.

its the worst medium tank but still usefull for flanking and scouting and supporting the su85 or t-70.

I already told you, just because a unit fulfills a role doesn't mean it is performing cost effectively or well at all. A 600mp ober would still kill enemy infantry very well, but would still be very inefficient.

Forcing a player to use a shite unit because its the only choice is probably the worst way to design a game. If you expect callins to be nerfed, you need to do something about the T34/76. I really don't see whats so hard to understand about this. The current T34/76 would be useful at one thing, flanking, but it doesn't have the DPS to justify using it except as a last resort. No Medium should be relegated to being a shitty flank assaulter that cannot even deal much damage. The Sherman, for 10 fu more, gives you amazing AI, decent AT, and smoke utility. The P4 gives you survivability, decent AT DPS, and decent AI DPS. The T34/76 gives you .3 speed, terrible DPS, Sherman survivability, a terrible vehicle snare, capture territory, and terrible DPS. (It also flanks worse than the P4 since P4 has blitz and better DPS).

But hey, dat 40mp 25 fu savings, thats like subsidized molotovs/AT nades. At 12 minutes into the game.

Also, please hurry with the actual arguments, I believe that some people tire of this game.