http://www.coh2.org/replay/28111/ak%26chop-vs-go-hard
Take a look at this one, Good players (All top 20 4/3's I believe) and over 60 tanks destroyed in total |
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A very fun game with high ranking 4's players Including myself, chop and go hard. Very low vp.
We inflicted there first loss with this game, With that team.
60 tanks destroyed!! |
It's time to put some perspectives. First of all, since i won't dive into the gamefiles, this is just info collected from the differents stats sites which may or may not be updated, experience and memory.
-It's accelerates/decaccelerates faster
-It's hull/turret mg has higher DPS to account for the lack of gunner upgrade. The DPS is basically the same as a Tiger with a gunner.
-Increased sight (specially with bulletins)
-TWP working as Stugs TWP meaning that it doesn't target ground.
-I'm not sure but does it have 160+ hp ?
http://www.coh2-stats.com/vehicles/tiger_ace_sdkfz_181_mp
-25% less MP and 90% less fuel for as long as the TA is alive or 10 mins*
*Someone corroborate this plz.
TA cost: 800mp + 75mp*min + 90% of your fuel income. It hurts if you have map control, it doesn't if you don't have it or if you don't actually have fuel (P4 all day everyday).
On a 50/50 situation, it would have cost you 180-200f.
Why the TA is good:
-You don't have map/fuel control? Don't worry save mp.
-P4 heavy into TA. The moment you call it, you are 260f + 200mp ahead of your opponent (Tank is valued more or less as 1000mp 260f). If you trade inmediatly for example with an IS2 you are ahead.
-Trade P4 1v1 with T34s/Sherman/Jackson and then call TA.
-Use it when the game is ending since there is no drawback when the game won't last 10 more mins.
-CPs after 7-10 are obtained pretty quickly since combat scales pretty fast. 4 more CP than a normal Tiger is not as much. And still, you don't neccesarily want to get it inmediatly.
TL;DR: the unit is "fine", how you get it's not. On 2v2 is bearable since you can focus fire it with your parnter and on higher modes you have plenty of support and resources (fuel) don't matter as much.
TA's MP and Fuel reduction is until the unit dies.
Also, When accounting for the hull dps upgrade take into consideration it cannot shoot at aircraft like the turret can. |
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I can't speak for 1's (I assume its very powerful if you get to 15 cp)
But in team games its fine, The unit reflects being the most expensive single unit in the game with the highest CP requirement in the game.
This unit is strongest when it hits the field on a somewhat even fight and is weakest when you are loosing hard. This is on a doctrine that has no offmap support, And the vet ability is something to use with care.
Overall the tank fights like a vet 3 tiger with stun shot. it doesn't have JT amounts of armor and can be disabled by a mine quite easily. Mark target also works with t34/85's And B4 is a very strong counter to it.
When he has the TA on the field he has a massive manpower disadvantage, and needs a good amount of pios to keep it near full health (3-4)
Killing the TA's support is normally the most easy way to counter it because he doesn't have the manpower to keep trading.
At the end of the day its fine in team games. |
It used to be 200 MP, one of the patches changed that to 300. Not that this changes any point here.
Possibly, but bad doctrine design has nothing to do with the point of this thread.
As already noted by me on the previous page, each player in a team spending 200 MP to secure their side of the map with caches is a minuscule expenditure that places them in no disadvantage at all. You can see this in every team game.
No, go check its 200. You are wrong. |
Thread: ISU-15223 Nov 2014, 21:39 PM
Just decreasing AoE would be enough, no need to make it less consistent also. Good example is StuH from vcoh. Missed a lot (frustrating) but still had potential to do a ridiculous amount of damage when it actually did hit infantry (also frustrating).
I miss the StuH, That thing was baller and annihilated brits.  |
The Opel Blitz costs 300 MP and boosts resource income from any point it is set on, so that is more or less in the same category as caches. The Luftwaffe Supply Drop costs 200 MP and brings in 150 MN or 50 FL depending on resource point on which it is dropped. The Soviet Industry boosts fuel income and vehicle production speed at the cost of manpower income passively, starting at 3 CP (IIRC) till the end of the game.
If we are discussing this in terms of benefit / harm to tactical and skilful play (which was the primary point of my post), I can't see how hindering unit numbers in early game can be a valid trade-off for tank spam rolling over infantry and blowing up armor in late-game.
Opal blitz is 200.. and only effects yourself.
The fuel from Luft supply doctrine is one of the only things it has going for it.
Box's suck now, and everything luft supply does, CAS dose better. |
The thing is that combined arms from Allies are far less effective than "combined arms" from OKW, if we can call that combined arms. To me, it is the same than a bioball from Terran in Sc2. A blob easy to do and that can rape everything with ease.
That is until you get bane'd muta'd / colossus - storm spammed. |
but if 4v4 was equal, then why the huge gap in win rates? It seems far-fetched to say Allies are just more noob and less skilled
I think all he was saying it was pretty close in the top 30 and i would agree with that. |
I would love to know if Relic has stats for map.
Map, initial spawn and combination of factions (in case of teamgames) is a huge factor.
It's not the same playing Langres as allies (or in North), Kholodny on east, Stalingrad as Axis, Semoisky as OH againts USF or as USF and someone cheesing blocking truck + reinforced barbwire, Rhzev winter on north or as axis, Trois point, Hurtgen Forest...
Rostov.. south spawn as axis, Rush 3-4x kubel to bridges have 1 okw truck block the lower bridge and the other lay reinforced wire and bam city yours unless they pull off a great flank though the island VP.
Rostov is seriously a BS map, it has that expoit as axis, (There is another one invovling a med truck rush across the river) and allies can exploit it by FHQ spamming. |
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