Ram is pretty useless at the moment. And the Pz4 has a lot of anti - infantry capabilities so all in all the Pz 4 is superior to both T 34 76 and T 34 85.
Nope.
As an intermix of unit stats such as armor, hp, speed related stats, AT, AI, Ram and cost, all three of these units score about the same in overall equivalence.
Each of these units has a reciprocal strength and weakness in different areas of the values listed above, but leading to a sum total value, overall, of equivalence.
Thats what asymmetric balance is all about. |
By T34, you mean /76 or /85?
Because neither is rough equivalent of P4, one is considerable inferior with a chance to win, other is considrable superior with a chance to loose.
I meant both, infact.
Because you have forgotten to include AI efficacy and cost into the equation, which also carry their own value.
(Also, Ram.)
Thats what balance is. A complex equation of a wide variety of values. |
You forget that T - 34 / 85 and easy eight force you to use a special doctrine while the panther and PzIV are non doctrinal tanks and tho they are very powerful
Who has forgotten that?
There is not an Ost player in the world who is not constantly and painfully aware of this.
But you seem to have forgotten that T34 is of rough equivalence to PIV, and to be blissfully unaware of the universally recognised Ost T4 issues (including Panther).
So, who actually is forgetting what? |
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Iirc, from the previous occurence, it would only bug if you issued another movement order.
So perhaps try that, as a temporary bandaid till hopefully Relic fixes whatever it is. |
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Sounds like an old bug has snuck back in.
Perhaps from usimg old code from a pervious version.
This has been an issue before. |
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Thanks Katitof.
Well, shit, they fucked that up pretty bad then.
Id recommend a return to G43 rate, considering and allowing for squad size difference as well as infantry armor changes.
(That moving accuracy rate seems about right though, accounting for 2 more rifles on the Penals)
Costwise, it makes "sense" for Penals to roughly match G43 Grens, perhaps with a slightly greater impetus on mid rathet than long dps. Not necessqrily mid impetus, but I think that adds a bit of flavor and difference, and generally Id say that having a mid focus is actually better than a long focus, in most cases. |
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Whats Penal performance atm?
Last I checked, ages ago, it was roughly equal to G43 Grens, which I thought was a pretty good benchmark.
Especially for firing on the move. Imo, fixing Penals to G43 rate, would be a good place to start.
Edited to add: I agree with Katitof (shock/horror).
Consider even if Cons got a DP upgrade.
Why would you even want mid-long weapon on a unit optimised for close-mid?
Cons are not optimised for range. It would be quite silly to sit at mid-long range with the DP doing dmg, but the rest of your unit out of its optimum.
Furthermore, sort of doesnt synch with the synergy of Molotovs and Oorah, which are used in (and to get to) close range where the units weapons are at an optimum.
Why would you even want a mid-long range weapon on a unit that otherwise is at a optimum in close-mid, as well as with abilities that are tuned to that range? |
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I dont think a mid-lategame 6man unit with LMG, Merge and Oorah is fair, in comparison to simply a 4man unit with LMG.
Know what I mean?
Ironically, its exactly in mid-lategame, when the 6man size starts to be a real advantage for soaking dmg.
People say that Cons dont "scale" there, but actually, thats when the 6man thing becomes a real practical advantage when you start getting hit by a lot of non-small arms nastiness of various colors and sizes.
Merge is definately marginal, but useful sometimes. Oorah however, is pretty awesome for redeploying between fronts, wide flanks and to the field from base. Its easy to discount them, because they dont have a shiny "thisnkills shit" factor, but really, its quite an awesome native ability. |
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Id say yes, if an option on a Commander that does not have other infantry callins or upgrades.
But on a vanilla tech basis, I dont think its possible without removing the native Merge and Oorah first. Some people might argue that "well, Merge and Oorah are shit", but that doesnt change the fact that a part of Conscript value is "invested" in these.
If Cons could upgrade to an LMG of some sort, it just pretty unfairly makes Grens with LMGs look rather shit in comparison.
I suppose if the DP upgrade removed Merge and Oorah from theCon unit, that would reconcile the difference a bit, but it would still leave Cons with an early advantage from Merge and Oorah, that Grens quite simply dont have. (In addition to the old and established asymmetric balance system, where Cons, and Soviet units overall, are much more apt for capturing support weapons without being decimated by the model transfer) |
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Ost T4 cost is a strange issue, which Im not sure what to suggest to remedy.
Relic seemed to decide to instead put lategame armor call-ins into most Ost Commanders, rather than making the native T4 choices desirable.
As a result, Panther has been put in a wierd place in terms of cost and effectiveness.
With most Commanders its just faster and more cost effective to use the callin options instead.
In retrospect, it would probably have been better to put Panthers into the very common Tiger callin slot, and put Tigers into T4 instead.
I dont think there is anymore a pracrical way to incentivise Brummbars, and frankly an Ostwind is better in many ways, especially for its additional AA. Im more or less resigned to the realisation that Brummbar will probably remain a "wasted" t4 option throughout the entire lifespan of this game...
I do think something should be done to make Panzerwerfer more accessible though.
Im really tempted to suggest it get moved to T3, but that would also just make t4 altogether undesirable even more than now. |
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