Profile of Snipester

Yeah, he's definitely referring to tying call ins to tech. I'm excited for that though. CoH2 will be much better off. It will definitely take some work to smooth it out but I think it will be a lot easier to balance and honestly it will really change how late game is played for the Soviet and Wehrmacht, and even early game for certain doctrines/factions too.

This is a step in the right direction!

On another note, I can see Wehrmacht being really weakened by this because Tiger is their saving grace right now against the US.

The Panther is 175 FU + tech costs, which is a lot to pay for something that's only effective vs. tanks. I don't think it performs like a 175 FU tank hunter should, especially compared to the Jackson, both in a vacuum and for factions as a whole. The key word here is tank hunter. I think that in its current state, the title "tank hunter" attached to the Panther is a misnomer, and at the moment it isn't particularly useful for the Ostheer, which is why we continue to see Tiger spam. If you don't believe me, just think about how often you see an Ostheer Panther in game.

Me personally, I'd much rather have the Panther reflect a more glass cannon approach. As in, comparable offensive abilities to the Jackson (at only 50 range, anything more would be too strong) but better HP and armor (like that of the Panzer IV) to justify its price point. That's a true tank hunter. It would have so much more use for the Ostheer in combating heavy tanks like ISUs and IS-2s. Of course, it would take a lot of tweaking so that it wouldn't be OP, but for 175 FU, a tank hunter that's weak against infantry should be a punishing unit, which it really isn't at the moment.

Don't think I've forgotten about the OKW! Seeing that the Puma works very well for the OKW as a cost effective light vehicle/medium tank hunter unit, and remains relevant even in the late game, a Panther for the OKW like the one I described would be bigger and badder Puma, but at a much higher price tag, rewarding good micro and punishing bad micro, being a glass cannon for what you pay.

Again, reworking a unit like this takes a lot of tweaking to prevent it from being UP/OP, but until it's reworked Ost late game is going to be continually dominated by Tiger spam, especially now that the Panzerwerfer got nerfed.

In bullet points (sort of TL;DR),
the ideal Panther (at the current 175 FU price tag) is:
-Comparable offensive stats to the Jackson, but keep the range at 50 to keep it from being a mini Elefant, maybe even 45 or 40 if it becomes an issue, so it's not so much of a sniper tank as it is a flanker/hunter, but I think that 50 range is pretty good for it
-Armor and HP equal to or around that of the Panzer IV, we don't want this to be a particularly tough tank
-Keep speed, acceleration and cost values the same

What this means is:
-At 175 FU, not exactly spammable, but still very strong, particularly offensively, which it should be
-Much more micro rewarding as a "tank hunter" and actually fulfills this role; it hits hard, moves fast, and if you keep it out of range/away from damage it can be extremely rewarding. Right now it has stats in all of the wrong places, except for its speed; its RoF is abysmal, damage is same as other Ost tanks, and accuracy is poor, especially on the move, but it has a lot of health and armor...? How is that a tank hunter? It's more of a bruiser with those kind of stats, like a Tiger Lite except more nimble and bad vs. infantry.
-If somehow spammed, only has the vitality at or around that of a Panzer IV and is still weak vs. infantry, meaning AT guns and engine crits will tear these things to shreds, not to mention they would still be pretty bad vs. infantry.

True TL;DR
In my opinion, the Panther is not very effective in its current role and can hardly be classified as a tank hunter, and I think that it should be more of a glass cannon, sacrificing its health and armor for much more offensive power like that of a Jackson, to justify its 175 FU price tag and make Ostheer T4 truly useful in all game modes again.

How do you guys feel about this? Even if you don't like the comparisons/stats I've thrown out there, i.e. comparable offensive power to the Jackson but with more HP and armor (you might feel it would be too strong), do you at least think that the direction of the Panther to a glass cannon unit would be better for it? Why or why not?

Why does everyone say Ost T4 is bad? The Pwerfer was awesome these last few patches. Maybe if all the embittered diehard ost fans had pulled heir collective heads out of the sand and realized it had the same damage profile as the 'mad OP' katty with a much tighter, faster barrage, they could have had the fun I was having with that little beauty.

Especially hidden in a forwards spot to counter-battaery kattys and watch them get gibbed by my now shiny vet 2/3 werfer.

Panther still needs to be the same as the Ost one, but meh. Werfer was- and maybe still is- worth T4 in long 2v2 games.

Tiger >>>>> Panther, especially at 230 FU vs 175 FU + tech costs. 175 FU + tech is a lot to pay for a specialist, which is pretty mediocre at what it does.

Things that Panther does better: range, speed, turret rotation
Things that Tiger does better: RoF, HP, armor, anti infantry

I believe that they have the same accuracy (0.025 far, 0.05 near), but the Tiger also has the advantage in DPS because of its superior RoF.

Also remember that the advantages the Panther has over the Tiger can be made up with vet (range at vet 2, speed and turret rotation at vet 3). The Tiger is simply superior.

panzer grens are actually used plenty. They have a different role that people still cant grasp. They win at short and medium range vs everything except shocks at close. You just need to keep them in cover like Sturm pios.

Agreed, but they will never be used very much for anti infantry since Grenadiers do that much better for much cheaper.

american late game does need help. watching streamers and from personal experience any game after 20 minutes becomes a huge struggle. All German infantry out scales basic rifle men, and at this time they have veterancy on their weapons teams and tanks which are superior. A P4 still goes toe to toe with the Jackson and it cost more. The problem with US late game is that when the populations start to even out and veterancy is gained, there is no way to really "swarm" your opponent to keep the edge. You are forced into unfavorable engagements in order to keep the MP drain going so your opponents can not get their really great stuff out. Really the late game problem is armor though. with no heavy armor, US faction cannot spear head any assault well on even terms. Their tanks are paper thin and still expensive in both population and resources. See, as a faction designed about mobility and having lots of cheap effective tanks, they sure are not cheap, so you cannot gain a numerical advantage which is needed.

Rifles are really strong early game and not so much late. If you want to buff their late game, you're gonna have to nerf their early game. US would just be too much to handle otherwise. As for P4, it gets seriously outranged by the Jackson. The Jackson is a glass cannon, not a frontline tank and should not be used as such. Don't send it in Rambo style expecting it to win.

if maxim gets nerfed at range, itll be fine, they do not need to buff the mg42 as well and really throw things out of wack

The MG42 doesn't need a damage buff, it needs to be a suppression weapon to keep enemies at range which it currently does. The only kind of buff it needs is a reduction in the time to acquire target/increase in traverse. So it finds targets and shoots more quickly. It's quite unreliable for firing at units in its arc at the moment.

Bazookas still do terrible damage, I never see bazookas because they cost so much and do so little compared to getting an early tank or AT guns.

They aren't terrible, though they aren't shrecks. They're terrifying in blobs though.

Pumas still over preforming. they still are an armored car that beats tanks. 1v1 it can still win vs a sherman not even using its aimed shot (which for sure puts the nail in its coffin)

If you nerf the Puma there's no reason to play OKW anymore. It's their saving grace against early T34s and M15 Halftracks. And anyway, most of their tanks are supposed to "overperform" in a sense, because they have reduced income and only specialist vehicles, no generalists. The Puma is supposed to be a light, fast tank destroyer, sort of like a mini Jackson, fast, good range (instead of high damage it has high rate of fire), but also very weak, and gets killed easily.

panzer fusilliers need to be nerfed. I have been using them for some time now, they out scale, out preform every infantry in the game. I think the problem is that they retain such huge DPS at long range

Yes, I love these things but I must agree. They are really strong right now.

US light howizer is pretty terrible, a small price decrease would still see it not used because it simply does not do anything unless it is barraging a building

I don't know, a price decrease would do well I think. It's not as horribad as everyone makes it out to be. Yeah it's not amazing, but it also has really long range, longer than the ISG. Plop it in the back and just let it support your stuff.

Volks do not need an AI infantry upgrade just like conscripts do not. They just need a bit of a dps update to put them on par with Grens and conscripts. they do out scale other infantry

Agreed.

Jaeger infantry just like fusiliers need to be toned down

I wouldn't know, I haven't gotten to play with them (thanks Relic...)

panther needs a fuel price decrease, It is too expensive to be viable very often especially for Ostheer which I'm glad Dane pointed out, the large tech cost really puts a hammer down on using them.

Yes, and I think that the entire Ostheer tier system needs to have the building and tech costs reworked.

I highly disagree with the kubel wagon being useless

It has a niche, I think it's largely fine.

I dont understand how he thinks a jagdP4 is terrible. It has way more armor, plenty of penetration, and has a vet one ability that makes it undetectable on the minimap. Its veterancy is flat out amazing and allows it to outscale the heaviest tanks. A vet three JagdP4 in a 1v1 fight kills a KV2. there are no problems with it.
if anything the SU-85 needs a bit of help.

Agreed, except for the part about the SU-85. I don't want to relive the days of the SU-85 spam. That thing was absolutely awful to play against, I quit for around 6 months because of that crap.

JagdTiger is ment to be the OKW elephant, It would be pretty unfair if it squad wiped all the time.

I hate all super ranged units, except for the PAK 43. They don't belong in the game.

ISU still needs to be toned down slightly

See previous comment.

Flack half track needs to have its set up time halfed. It takes 3 AT grenades to kill it, So its actually the mobility that needs help

Yeah the setup time is really limiting it I think. It's too hard to get out of danger when an AT gun appears.

Luchas is ment to be a gap filler unit, not to kill everything. Because OKW can place that truck first, What happens if you run into 2 heavy machine guns? you need the luchas to help deal with weapons teams which is why it is in that tier.

Yeah, but I don't know. I still don't feel quite right about this unit. It still feels out of place, I don't know how to describe it. I can't say that it's useless, but its window of usefulness is still so limited that it's hard to justify spending precious OKW fuel on it. Kind of like the current T70. Don't get me wrong, I never want to relive the days of the 4 minute T70. That was horrible also.

That's not true, jacksons have plenty of issues dealing with a standard tiger. A sherman stands no chance. I'll admit that it's possible for three (maybe even two) jacksons to beat a tiger, if properly used. Which means that the deciding factor was player skill

If you're having trouble with supported Tigers, that's understandable. The US should have trouble with them considering their strength in the early and mid game. If you are having trouble with unsupported Tigers, you need to work on your positioning and kiting.