Eugen games are on the opposite end of the APM requirement spectrum compared to starcraft. They are basically closer to chess than to fast paced RTS lol.
I was talking more about Steel Division b/c I've never heard of EUGEN and I didn't find anything looking it up on steam. So much for due diligence...
Anyways,
But both MoW and Wargame seem to suffer from terrible gameplay flow. They have complex mechanics but they don't have a satisfying gameplay loop like CoH.
MoW 2 is trying to adjust the gameplay loop with stuff like the echelon system and logistics. MoW 2 is definitely faster paced overall than its counterparts, and the new addition of the "retreat to reserve" mechanic means that if you have a unit taking up a lot of popcap, then you can take it out of the field temporarily and bring it back later when it's needed.
It really does have some soul, and I'm tired of hearing people who clearly haven't played the game mouth off about it like they have. (Doesn't include you). |
Men of War Assault Squads -> COH KILLER
Men of War Assault Squads 2 -> COH KILLER
Gates of Hell -> COH KILLER
Men of War 2 -> COH KILLER
MOW2 is hot pile of garbage. It was pile of garbage when it was a free2play, it remained garbage when it became MOW2.
This statement means nothing to me. I look at videos of MoW 2: Arena and I see a different game from the one I played.
MOW2 went for an RTS approach and all the appeal old MOW had pretty much were removed in favour of tank HP and other garbage.
Pure bias. For someone who's an apparent fan of Gates of Hell, one would think that you would also be up to date on the fact that its devs have already confirmed the health system has always existed in the Men of War engine. I don't know what your "other garbage" statement is referring to, but hopefully it has more substance than the former one.
MoW 2 and CoH 3 occupy the same space in my mind currently. I always enjoyed the CoH 3 experience throughout the multiplayer beta. I gave them both the benefit of the doubt, and that allows me to see what good can come of the game. CoH 3 has, so far, been a major letdown, but that's entirely due to the developers post-launch fumbling of support of the game.
Men of War 2 is already as of now looking like a serious contender for a CoH 3 alternative. If the devs working on MoW 2 prove they have a brighter fire in their belly than Relic's devs do... That's the final nail in the coffin for CoH 3. I'm sorry. Don't shoot the messenger.
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Any Steel Division/ EUGEN games > Any MoW
If you're grand strategy autist and starcraft APM haver, then sure. I personally enjoy the small scale battles, CoH size. MoW is a better fit for that, while still having the ""realism"" aspect. |
Just kidding though, thanks for the break down.
Of course! Thank you for reading and replying 
I am still one of the people that would love a slightly dumbed down version of MoW. The micro management distracted me too much from the actual game play. The small mission I played was more fluent in the overall gameplay, but unfortunately not enough to convince me that my gripes with the general game flow will be solved. Maybe I'll get another chance if there is a next test, let's see. I'll probably pick it up at some time for a couple of Euros, but 90% sure not for release.
Absolutely, not on release. I'm on a similar boat with MoW 2 as I was with CoH 3. Both showed a lot of potential to me in the beta. Working on the assumption that from the beta, the game will be worked on and improved all the way up until release, then I believe that the game would be a good game to buy.
Unfortunately in CoH 3's case, Relic had little to no change between beta and release, and while the potential was still there, it was buried in bugs and blobs post-release.
So long as they do keep working on the game, I think this might be the entry in the series you could get behind.
Currently, I've come back to the never-aging Age of Empires 2 and Beyond all Reason.
I'll have to give those a look  |
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In terms of infantry weapon firing animations... we have no animations. At least as of the beta. |
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That's another thing I forgot to mention that's huge: Reconnect. Imagine reconnect in an RTS, right? Absolutely mind boggling. Also, there's a spectator mode. Sadly there's no way to turn the FOW off, but you can spectate both teams. |
How to appreciate COH3 more? Play MAN OF WAR2 
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1677280/discussions/0/3834297051365026119/
Thanks for posting this. I really appreciate your objective analysis. If I had posted I would have been banned and it would have been deleted.
First we are talking about a BETA which was testing the multiplayer. Unlike COH3, the BETA is NOT the finished game by any means and only part of the content and features were there.
But here are some key differences between Men of War II and COH3 that I could see:
Direct control of units which is very useful for an accurate HUMMEL or heavy artillery.
No store with outside money or premium currency (don't confuse the MoWII progression system and unit unlocks with a currency store as it is not).
Large roster of pretty much every unit from WW2. Kingtiger, yes. Jagdtiger, yes. Sturmtiger, yes. Hummel, yes, All of the above fielded in one battle, also yes.
There is a Soviet side like in COH2.
Battlegroups are called battalions and there were at least FIFTEEN (15) per side with their units customisable like a deck of cards. This is versus 3 in COH3 per side with zero customisation or ability to change individual units.
Matchmatching takes about 30 seconds to a few minutes at most for German side, and in the full release will probably be instantaneous.
Doctrinal artillery and lots of artillery units and batallions. For example you can build multiple field howtizers at the same time (like in COH2), multiple Wespe, Hummel etc. And yes, they cover the whole map. They will annihilate infantry blobs and one shot medium and lighter vehicles, including other artillery or open top SPGs.
Interesting camouflage and spotting system allowing for artillery duels at long range.
Graphics looks great at 4k and are gritty and units do not look cartoonish. Map variety was something like 7 at beta.
Team games can be 5v5.
Can reconnect to game if disconnected.
Built in ranking and progression system.
Battles can be very close without knowing a clear winner until the very end. It's possible to come back late game after a very long slog and win by a slight margin. No annoying 12 minute style battles or tickets counting down.
There is no annoying upgrades or endless UI sub menus.
Interesting data for equipment and units when hovering pointer. It shows a technical data table with all kinds of info on the equipment. Quite educational.
Airstrikes work as they should with real planes flying from an air base with no warning or magical flares and a delay.
Tanks vs tank combat and versus infantry is far more realistic than COH3 and same with the weapon ranges.
I could see the "balance" whining coming a mile away from the "competitive" YouTube streamers. Yes, in reality heavy late war German tanks and TDs such as Jagdtiger, Sturmtiger etc., would one shot allied tanks. And a medium to heavy German tank will also one shot a lighter allied vehicle. This is just reality. The vehicles still have health bars though and individual components can be damaged.
I had several very satisfying and long battles in MoWII including a very long and close battle where I was able to encircle the enemy forces on a huge map while suppressing them with heavy artillery. This isn't your mickey mouse donald duck 12 min battle console port game. I've never had a game end before 30 min because someone left.
Infantry can be effective if used tactically, but will get destroyed at range out in open by almost any vehicle with an mg. I don't mean suppressed or pinned down. I mean annihilated in groups at longer range. Shells do the same thing from tanks or artillery.
Stats can be turned off so no public tracking by third party sites. Surprised no one filed a complaint against COH3 yet via GDPR.
Most importantly, MoW II is an improvement over the older games adding new features and innovation and is not available on consoles. It's a PC gamer's strategy game for those looking for historical units and more realistic grand WW2 battles. - Top_Gun_MAVERICK |
Merge both game into [COH World] then sell content patch etc. For me its already the same game, just not compatible yet and not as good as the previous one. We cannot afford to split the player base. @relic
Meh. It's not really that deep of a split to warrant it. Around 2k players left coh2 and plus an extra 500 new players are all that CoH 3 is pulling in. CoH 2 is pretty much doing exactly the same as it was prior to CoH 3.
All relic has to do is stop wanking off and actually put some elbow grease and content into CoH 3 and the switch will either occur or not occur naturally. |
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They're going to use up all the cool names on shit updates.
Call this one "Operation Rusty Emu", or "Operation Flaming Paper Bag" |
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PPS - I also forgot to mention the changes to the Engineering system. In previous titles you used engineers that would cost CP and you would have to manually control. In MoW 2, you simply mark where you want to fortify, place tank traps, and place mines, and if you have engineers/ combat engineers in your loadout, they will do it autonomously and do not cost CP or Logistics tokens to field. The key phrase being IF you have them in your loadout, as not every Regiment has access to engineers. |
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