Throwing some random 15 minute thought hot potato for you guys to handle it.
USF:
BAR
-Slightly nerf BAR performance across the board. Nerf long range performance so they behave closer to assault Rifles than LMG (aka close mid range). NOTE: this should also apply to any other AR with long range DPS.
-Reduce muni cost.
RET
-Reduce cost. Reduce DPS.
-Make them have a weaker performance with pick up weapons. Less DPS with BARs, slower RoF and accuracy with zook. Fix the RET spam issue.
-Make Volley fire attractive when equipped with at least 1 bar or scrap that idea and rework it.
Ambulance
-Medics gain the same anchor mode as ambulance. They have a X limit on amount of models been healed or they heal at a reduced speed.
Rifles
- Reduce mp cost by 10.
OKW
Teching:
-Reduce starting mp by 50/80.
-SWS HT now cost 30/40mp less
-OKW T4 cost split in half or 1/3 n 2/3. First half unlocks Obers and maybe JPIV. Second half unlocks PIV, V and the Flak cannon.
Volks:
-Increase sandbag buildtime.
Is RE spam really an issue? Also, reducing their already pathetic DPS will just make them that much worse as a starting unit, and making them even worse with Zooks would really be a terrible idea honestly, as they're usually the only squad you want to even put zooks on since putting them on any other unit will reduce DPS. BARs on RE isn't really an issue I've encountered, nor do I ever find it useful to invest ammo in BARing up a RE when you can give them Zooks for much needed AT.
I agree with the other changes though I guess. |
I read most of your replies. I agree that Riflemen are not weak, that's not the argument I'm making. I know they have good veterancy bonuses, and I know they excel at close ranges. I still feel like a small reduction in mp is not a massive buff, nor would it be a massive boon to spamming riflemen. 260mp feels pretty reasonable to me.
Again, either way, either a manpower reduction without a reduction to re-enforce, or just a plain decrease in re-enforce cost would help alleviate the mp bleed of USF. I've also seen others suggest a reduction to OKW mp, but I don't know much about how that would impact balance, and it seems silly to change something from another faction to address an issue with USF.
I've also seen people suggest reducing build time for Riflemen, I don't know how their build time compares to Axis units like grens / volks so I can't really comment on that.
I also like the idea of reducing the price of the ambulance, even by just as much as 50-100mp would help a lot with manpower as USF.
It's not so much the price of Riflemen in general but the MP requirements that USF can have in many games that makes things hurt. |
Simply put, I feel that Riflemen's cost does not measure up to their performance, especially considering their counterparts (Volksgrenadiers 250mp, Grenadiers 240mp) outperform them in nearly every aspect at vet0 and in the early game with the exception being close range engagements. Their cost is especially evident in going against OKW due to the disparity in starting unit (RE vs. Sturmpio) and the disparity in mainline infantry cost (250 vs. 280mp, 25 vs. 28 re-enforce). Couple this with the mediocre performance at long range of Riflemen and you have a situation in which you are at a pretty significant disadvantage. The weakness of Rear Echelons only exacerbate this, as often times your first engagment with an OKW player will be 1-2 Riflemen and your RE against a Sturm and 2 Volksgrenadiers.
The simplest solution to this is a price reduction to Riflemen to bring them in line with their performance when they come onto the battlefield. Making them in the range of 250-260mp seems very reasonable, and will help alleviate some of the mp woes that USF often deals with. I honestly find it harder to maintain a positive K/D with USF than with Soviets due to how lousy Riflemen seem to perform in many matches. I'm not arguing that Riflemen are a terrible unit, they are not, but their cost does not reflect their performance, and they become quite the manpower drain because of the losses you take.
For example, in order to make the most out of Riflemen early on, you need to engage Volks and Grenadiers at a range that utilizes their close range damage output, often meaning you can't just sit back at range in green cover and peck away at an opposing squad in green cover, your only choice to win the engagement is to close in, or draw their fire with another squad and move in with another Riflemen to win the engagement at close range, taking more damage as you move into position. It simply more often than not leaves you in a bad position in terms of manpower losses that is hard to recoup.
The only other option I can see to make Riflemen better would be to adjust their long range accuracy modifiers, but I think a simple MP cost reduction with no unit re-balancing is the best method to ease the MP drain that USF has to deal with in the early game, especially vs. OKW. If a price reduction was given, the only other change necessary would be a slight reduction in USF starting resources to compensate.
Thoughts? Other suggestions? |
Valentine isn't what it used to be, its sight isn't all that great anymore.
I do have issue with recon flares that light up nearly the entire map. I'm fine with directed recon where you call in a plane that loiters and reveals units in one part of the map, but flares are just downright annoying, both the Brit and OKW versions of flares and they need to be reduced to simply targeting a small region of the map rather than lighting up the entire front line.
The UHU is ok for the most part, but its range is pretty insane, idk why more OKW players don't use them, especially in team games where their benefit is much more apparent. I do think considering its capabilities that it could have a price increase, but that's just my opinion, it's far from a glaring issue. I mean it is only 20mp / 5 fuel, which is practically nothing, it's cheaper than a kubelwagen and gives you a massive advantage in knowing enemy troop positions.
Alternatively, the UHU should be made weaker and easier to kill. I believe it takes 2 shots from most tanks to kill, it should be like other vulnerable units that die in 1 hit.
For example, it takes 3 hits from an AEC to kill an UHU. 2 hits from most other allied medium tanks. It's a little too durable considering what it is. |
Of all the things to complain about... Pathfinders. Wow, man we are really hitting a low bar here. |
I still use comets simply because they're more mobile than Churchills, and the utility you gain with Hammer with gammon bombs is invaluable vs. OKW (150 ammo to destroy any building).
The comet is a little pricey, that's my only real issue with it. Kinda hard to vet it too, but once you get its WP smoke it becomes a very versatile tank and it's very useful using the WP smoke on stationary units like AT guns / MGs to allow your infantry to assault.
Not really sure how they would buff it without over-buffing it. It's performance is far from terrible, it's frontal armor is great at bouncing axis armor too. Maybe a very slight buff to its penetration or accuracy or something, but I'm not sure what values or anything. |
Agreed. Valentine just costs too much to get blown out of existence with 60 ammo
Tellers cannot 1 shot wipe a Valentine currently, and Tellers cost 50 ammo not 60. However, Tellers do 1 shot wipe pretty much every other allied light vehicle. They do like 80% damage to the Valentine though.
I do find it a bit unfair though, it's not completely balance breaking, and it definitely punishes you for not using mine sweepers, but USF does have access to mines (behind tech) that can 1 shot most axis light vehicles (M20 M6 mines), which 1 hit wipe pumas, luchs, etc.
That said, in terms of balance issues Tellers are far from what I would consider an urgent adjustment. |
Why can't the Greyhound just be built at the Barracks after the LT and vehicle tech upgrades like everythng else?
I agree with this. Make it a 0CP unlock after you get the Mechanized command post upgrade from either the Lt. or Captain. That way the Greyhound will share timing with all other USF light vehicles. |
Recon is still my favorite commander, but the recent changes to USF make it much less appealing now.
5CP Greyhound makes it come way too late honestly, by the time you get it the enemy team is usually near getting a pz IV out.
The AT gun airdrop was invalidated with the changes to Captain / Lt, since the Captain is so much more desirable now and you can just get AT from that. Before I would never go Captain and only ever used Lt. and when using Recon would get the airdrop AT gun / Paras.
The butterfly bomb is still good vs. stationary targets if you position it correctly.
The I&R Pathfinders should be 0CP too, I agree with that. They need to make this commander viable anymore, lower the Greyhound CP and the I&R Pathfinders and it will be a desirable commander again. |
I've been thinking, now that Royal Engineers are used for snaring vehicles with their HEAT grenade, does anyone else think Relic should take a look at the Heavy Engineer upgrade that you get when you select Anvil?
The reduction in movement speed in combat makes it much more difficult to use their snare, and quite frankly the reduction in movement speed seems antiquated and a pointless negative to going anvil anyways. I don't really understand why it is needed in the first place.
I'd be fine with the heavy engineer upgrade simply being an upgrade that unlocks better repair speed and construction speed, while not giving them a Vickers, which quite frankly I've always felt is completely pointless on the combat engineer anyways. Price could be reduced to just 40 ammo rather than the 70 that is required for the vickers. |